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Waaaaayyyyy low for upper middle and upper class, even for a single person, much less a couple -especially if you're talking Seattle.
I think that difference of opinion just underscores how different folks talk about class. For some people, 'upper class' means a certain lifestyle. For me, upper class is defined by some amount of money and structure to my finances (e.g., maxing 401k, ROTH, contributing to 529s, taxables). I would minimize my investments in things like a dwelling, a car, clothes, food, even if I made $600,000 a year.
I can do all of those things that, to me, signifies upper class, with a $100,000 salary. Some people definitely don't, and some people need $250,000+ to buy things that show others that they're ostensibly in the upper class.
Another poster brought up wealth vs. income. That certainly may influence my idea of the class divisions as my family is heavily landed and has been for generations.
ETA: Certainly there are folks for whom money is not a consideration. I tend not to think of those folks as upper class, but as some other entity altogether. For many-multi-millionaires and beyond, this discussion doesn't even matter. JMHO.
Last edited by jabogitlu; 04-21-2017 at 06:41 PM..
For me, upper class is defined by some amount of money and structure to my finances (e.g., maxing 401k, ROTH, contributing to 529s, taxables). I would minimize my investments in things like a dwelling, a car, clothes, food, even if I made $600,000 a year.
I can do all of those things that, to me, signifies upper class, with a $100,000 salary. Some people definitely don't, and some people need $250,000+ to buy things that show others that they're ostensibly in the upper class.
While it's all fine and dandy that you max out your retirement accounts and you choose to live frugally... the fact of the matter is that you CANNOT fly first class, take 5-star European vacations, live in a 2 million dollar home or drive an S-Class... even if you wanted to. You don't have the ability to live lavishly.... which to me makes you middle class... perhaps upper-middle in a LCOL area.
Are you doing the right thing at your salary level... Heck yeah! But please don't embarrass yourself by thinking you can hob knob with the Rockefellers
70k here in nyc qualify's a family of 4 for a nyc low income housing project .
$70k/yr for a family of 4 is a little different than $45k/yr for one person. That's 2 people making $10k/yr less than that with 2 dependents in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
$70k/yr for a family of 4 is a little different than $45k/yr for one person. That's 2 people making $10k/yr less than that with 2 dependents in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
70k is 70k if you want to go by statistics which folks here love .
me , i talk in terms of lifestyle and location . for the middle class lifestyle you get here , that can be a very nice upper class lifestyle elsewhere for the same income. .
all that counts is what it means to me and my location . .. upper middle class lifestyles in manhattan can take a lot .
Manhattan’s middle class exists somewhere between $45,000 and $134,000.
But if you are defining middle class by lifestyle, to accommodate the cost of living in Manhattan, that salary would have to fall between $80,000 and $235,000.
Using the rule of thumb that buyers should expect to spend two and a half times their annual salary on a home purchase, the properties in Manhattan that could be said to be middle class would run between $200,000 and $588,000.
that is just to get to a middle class lifestyle according to an article in the new york times that looked at what it takes to live just a middle class lifestyle here . .
the problem is you are all trying to define something that is highly subjective and location sensitive and there is no actual definition for it. the definition depends on who you ask .
Last edited by mathjak107; 04-22-2017 at 04:16 PM..
It may sound strange, but in America the upper class isn't defined by income but rather by wealth. Or in other words, the upper class doesn't worry about income, as they have more than enough wealth to tide them over for the next generation or two of their descendants; thus, like income, the size of one's family is immaterial to the question.
Consider Bill Gates. He's definitely upper class. It has nothing to do with how much he currently makes or how many children he and his wife have. In fact, assuming a starting wealth value of $50 billion, Gates and his descendants could lose/spend $100 million a year for the next four hundred years and, with about $10 billion left, still be considered upper class.
The corollary is that if you rely on an income to keep yourself and your family in the style to which you'd like to become accustomed to, then you're at best upper middle class.
Wealth generates income without having to work. I'd say upper middle class starts around $125,000 to $250,000 depending in location and local COL, with upper class limited to those with at least $250,000 annual unearned income.
why bother to attempt to even guess at an amount . it is like asking how long is a rope .
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