Are there any millionaires.... (employment, apartments, accept, student)
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The assumption will be correct more often than wrong, by a long shot. Yes there are exceptions. So what? It's well known that most people live on 110% of their income instead of 70% of their income, as their aspirations to appear wealthy outstrip their financial abilities to become wealthy.
Steve
I don't know if that's true or not. Perhaps it is. Could you point to some statistics or other information that verifies this?
Could you point to some statistics or other information that verifies this?
What more do you need than the housing debacle as evidence that massive numbers of Americans choose to live beyond their financial means? As soon as home loans were made available to people who couldn't afford homes, they came in droves. We are a consumer driven society that saves very little. Look at the rate of consumer debt. Most of that debt is for worthless crap that depreciates in value the second it's carried out of the store.
I'm not going to go digging up stats, but feel free to post your own stats that prove me wrong. There are none, but feel free to look.
What more do you need than the housing debacle as evidence that massive numbers of Americans choose to live beyond their financial means? As soon as home loans were made available to people who couldn't afford homes, they came in droves. We are a consumer driven society that saves very little. Look at the rate of consumer debt. Most of that debt is for worthless crap that depreciates in value the second it's carried out of the store.
I'm not going to go digging up stats, but feel free to post your own stats that prove me wrong. There are none, but feel free to look.
Steve
I agree with all of that, I just don't think there's any evidence that shows that those with nice homes and nice cars are disproportionately the ones that are living paycheck to paycheck. The point I was trying to make, I guess not so well, is that there are LOTS of people out there that have material things that are NOT in secret financial dire straits and I don't think there's any way to know who those people are or aren't. There are lots of assumptions that the guy with the nice car and nice house is in debt up to his ears. I think it makes SOME people who are fiscally responsible feel better if they can conjure up an image of their own neighborhood Jones's as financially irresponsible.
The fact that this nation, on the whole, is a nation of spenders and not savers is an entirely different observation and argument with which I agree and with which I have no desire to debate.
Any evidence used to support either side is anecdotal at best. But I agree with Paige65. Spouse & I have a nice house, lots of toys, 2 nice cars, and expensive hobbies. Yes, I buy the $5 latte at Starbucks and eat out a fair amount. But we also have healthy 401(k)s and other retirement savings, and housing expenses that amount to only 14% of income. But you would look at me with your prejudiced eyes and see someone who is overextended and just trying to show off. Pish.
There is no debate that many, many Americans are overextended. But I would contend that they come from all socioeconomic classes. Lots of folks all up and down the financial ladder are in debt up to their eyeballs. To try to claim that it's primarily the upper-middle class is just silly, when there is nothing to back that up but assumptions.
This is a very interesting thread. My wife and I save a lot of our money as well. With what I make it pays all of our bills and there is a little left over for savings, and everything she makes goes into savings. Our cars are paid off, 2 honda accords that are silver with black interiors ( I wanted them to last long and black hides dirt!) We plan on driving them until the wheels fall off! We also have no debt at all (besides our mortgage) and pay for everything on one credit card that gets paid off the same month. We use the credit card because they give us points which in turn = free money. So why pay cash when I get nothing in return? We pay our electricity bill, cable, internet, gas, food, you name it we we pay it with the CC! Last year we got back 3k from the points. I'm often thinking of ways we can grow our money though and that can be the tough part. You really have to put your balls on the line so to speak to buy a rental, apartment building, business, etc. I don't want to lose our savings by making a wrong move.
We use coupons here and there but not to the level of some people on this thread. Also, I often times find myself using ebay to save money. Just bought a years supply of fancy feast for the cat for $80. If I would have bought it in the store it would have cost us $200.00. I do things like this all the time and it doesnt take up much of my time.
One thing I want to point out though is I will not live a ridiculously frugal life. We only have one life and I plan on enjoying myself. I'm not going to spend hours and hours a week clipping coupons and looking for used stuff all the time just so I can save more money. I actually think this is an addiction and not a healthy one.
There is no debate that many, many Americans are overextended. But I would contend that they come from all socioeconomic classes.
I think that the very lower end of the socio-economic spectrum is actually better off than the middle/upper class with regard to how much trouble they get into with debt. The reason is simply that they do not have the credit scores or access to the kind of credit that allows them to dig deep holes. Recent 5 years and subprime loans excluded, those in that category generally just tend to remain "broke", spending all they have to get by, but also have little debt and little to no extravagancies.
Middle/upper class wage earners are better access to the financial shovels with which to dig the really big debt holes. They also have emotional aspirations to keep up with the Jones' that the lower income spectrum does not, or has to a much lesser degree.
I therefore contend that if we were to go dig up the data (and I've read it, I just don't remember where other the MND), it would support the idea that higher income people do in fact get into financial trouble that is disproportionately higher (based on percentage of their income level) than lower income people.
a million bucks is still a good chunk of money. it's enough to not ever have to work again. you could invest it at 5% and get 50,000 per year. thats plenty of money in a lot of places in the country to live comfortably.
a million bucks is still a good chunk of money. it's enough to not ever have to work again. you could invest it at 5% and get 50,000 per year. thats plenty of money in a lot of places in the country to live comfortably.
But I'd reckon that most folks able to hit the million mark are earning a lot more than 50K a year. I know I wouldn't want to see my income cut that significantly. And honestly, I wouldn't WANT to live off $50K a year -- not where I am. That would be a big drop in standard of living. Really, a million ain't what it used to be.
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