Philadelphia 2035 (Liberty, Penn: to eat, average, complaints)

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

No. Philly.com is the most sensationalistic, negative publication in the entire country. They will find any way to spin a positive story negatively. Center City is very healthy and it's much better now than it's ever been in it's history and it's only getting better. Don't listen to a thing philly.com says.

well yes but tourist and convention (a mess really with union labor costs) downward trends are not good overall - may have hotel developer re-think the need

Also the city still needs more job creation

residential development i not the only factor nor the biggest need

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

No. Philly.com is the most sensationalistic, negative publication in the entire country. They will find any way to spin a positive story negatively. Center City is very healthy and it's much better now than it's ever been in it's history and it's only getting better. Don't listen to a thing philly.com says.

Well, the article is from the Inquirer, but I agree that it is kind of gratuitously negative. At least they included some reasonable quotes from Paul Levy.

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Well, the article is from the Inquirer, but I agree that it is kind of gratuitously negative. At least they included some reasonable quotes from Paul Levy.

I think that two word phrase basically sums up all Philadelphia media. Even sports media!

Here's the question I have. Is Philadelphia media so negative to meet the demands of its negative audience or are they one of the actual sources of the negadelphian attitude?

Ever since I've been around Philadelphia has been filled with a disproportionate amount of negative jerks and the media has been terrible and negative. Anyone been around long enough to know which came first?

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

well yes but tourist and convention (a mess really with union labor costs) downward trends are not good overall - may have hotel developer re-think the need

Also the city still needs more job creation

residential development i not the only factor nor the biggest need

This was exactly my take. If residential continues to rise without jobs to boot, that growth will likely be stunted at some point. The base of any growing city is jobs.

I think the tourist and convention numbers go hand-and-hand with job growth to an extent.

[AJNEOA]

Philadelphia Navy Yard Liberty Property Trust - Philadelphia Business Journal

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

This was exactly my take. If residential continues to rise without jobs to boot, that growth will likely be stunted at some point. The base of any growing city is jobs.

You're right that the lack of a substantially growing jobs base in the city is something that contributes to stunted growth. However, I think it's important to note that the jobs issue is definitely not new for Philadelphia. Center City in particular has managed to grow pretty impressively over the past 10-15 years without substantial jobs growth, because the city has adapted to a regional economy in which workers reverse commute to suburban jobs in places like Bala Cynwyd, King of Prussia, Radnor and Conshohocken. There's no reason to believe that could not continue to be the case, especially with more frequent and modernized regional public transportation.

Again, that's not to say that (diverse) jobs growth isn't crucially important for Philadelphia, but my overall point is that Philadelphia has essentially already adapted to the reality of paltry jobs growth in the city limits long ago. What is really exciting to think about is if the city's job growth tracked more in-line with regional job growth -- I think we'd see even more impressive revitalization within the city.

Additionally, another trend at play is at the statewide level -- Pennsylvania's job growth has been very lackluster over the past couple of years, so lately this has not just been a Philly-only problem.

Pa., Philly, Pgh rank near bottom for US job growth: study

Not to start a political debate, but I think this is very strongly linked to short-sighted budget-related decisions made in Harrisburg. Cutting tens of thousands of public employees across the state is obviously having a negative effect on the economy.

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

I think the tourist and convention numbers go hand-and-hand with job growth to an extent.

Tourism and conventions drive job growth, but I don't think it the reverse is true. Part of the problem with the whole convention business is that EVERY major city is the country is competing for the same exact business, with very similar facilities that have also been expanded in recent years. Here's a recent article out of Boston that talks about this issue in the context of potentially expanding their city's convention center:

"In 2011, Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby noted that the square footage available for exhibitions nationwide soared from 40.4 million square feet in 1990 to more than 70 million square feet in 2011. But while the supply of convention space has mushroomed, demand for that space has plummeted. A few years ago, TradeShow Week reported that attendance at conventions and trade or consumer shows plummeted from 126 million in 2000 to just 86 million in 2010."

Does Expanding The Convention Center Make Economic Sense? | WGBH News

I think Philly still has an edge, because its convention center is very desirably and conveniently located compared to many cities in the thick of its downtown, but it's still important to understand how fierce the competition is. In other words, this is not a Philadelphia-only issue.

[kidphilly]

$60-$70 million Chestnut Street residential development set to begin

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Philadelphia Navy Yard Liberty Property Trust - Philadelphia Business Journal

an alternative link

Philadelphia Navy Yard Liberty Property Trust - Philadelphia Business Journal

[kidphilly]

PlanPhilly | Waterfront study says $250-million Penn's Landing investment would return $1.3 billion

Thanks to Summers

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by Duderino

You're right that the lack of a substantially growing jobs base in the city is something that contributes to stunted growth. However, I think it's important to note that the jobs issue is definitely not new for Philadelphia. Center City in particular has managed to grow pretty impressively over the past 10-15 years without substantial jobs growth, because the city has adapted to a regional economy in which workers reverse commute to suburban jobs in places like Bala Cynwyd, King of Prussia, Radnor and Conshohocken. There's no reason to believe that could not continue to be the case, especially with more frequent and modernized regional public transportation.

Again, that's not to say that (diverse) jobs growth isn't crucially important for Philadelphia, but my overall point is that Philadelphia has essentially already adapted to the reality of paltry jobs growth in the city limits long ago. What is really exciting to think about is if the city's job growth tracked more in-line with regional job growth -- I think we'd see even more impressive revitalization within the city.

Additionally, another trend at play is at the statewide level -- Pennsylvania's job growth has been very lackluster over the past couple of years, so lately this has not just been a Philly-only problem.

Pa., Philly, Pgh rank near bottom for US job growth: study

Not to start a political debate, but I think this is very strongly linked to short-sighted budget-related decisions made in Harrisburg. Cutting tens of thousands of public employees across the state is obviously having a negative effect on the economy.



Tourism and conventions drive job growth, but I don't think it the reverse is true. Part of the problem with the whole convention business is that EVERY major city is the country is competing for the same exact business, with very similar facilities that have also been expanded in recent years. Here's a recent article out of Boston that talks about this issue in the context of potentially expanding their city's convention center:

"In 2011, Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby noted that the square footage available for exhibitions nationwide soared from 40.4 million square feet in 1990 to more than 70 million square feet in 2011. But while the supply of convention space has mushroomed, demand for that space has plummeted. A few years ago, TradeShow Week reported that attendance at conventions and trade or consumer shows plummeted from 126 million in 2000 to just 86 million in 2010."

Does Expanding The Convention Center Make Economic Sense? | WGBH News

I think Philly still has an edge, because its convention center is very desirably and conveniently located compared to many cities in the thick of its downtown, but it's still important to understand how fierce the competition is. In other words, this is not a Philadelphia-only issue.

All good points, and I appreciate the perspective. Richmond VA has a similar issue, but downtown has less metro influence/gravity and things have only starting to improve (last 5 years). At the same time, the burbs are continuing to attract the higher paying jobs alongside residential development downtown.

The way I see it is that this dynamic is not going to create a truly unhealthy Center City or downtown Richmond, but it will hold progress back to an extent. I've never felt that conventions and tourists are the building blocks of a healthy economy. Moreso, it's the non-service-based economy that drives population growth and desirability (good paying jobs). Manhattan is so successful because it has people, amenities and good jobs. It has lots of service jobs too (and major COL issues), but there's more of a mix than a lot of metros.