Philadelphia 2035 (Erie, Washington, Franklin Park: disposal, groceries, liability)

[BK_PHL_DEL]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Note: I love PlanPhilly, but it really just echoes great ideas that the city ignores for the most part.

It is upsetting to me that the PhillyMag comment trolls seem to be commenting more frequently on PlanPhilly. It is one of my daily reads that I enjoy and I agree, the ideas are great.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by BK_PHL_DEL

It is upsetting to me that the PhillyMag comment trolls seem to be commenting more frequently on PlanPhilly. It is one of my daily reads that I enjoy and I agree, the ideas are great.

That's too bad. It sounds like a similar dynamic as our "Urban Planning" forum here. Might as well be arguing about Climate Change.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

That's a true point about the trains not always running through the center of neighborhoods-but this is not the case at all stations. The R6 for instance has stations in East Falls and Manayunk right off Ridge and Main Street. The Chestnut Hill West and East lines mostly do have stations in residential areas, but they are only a few blocks from Germantown and Chew Aves. Others are much better located like the final stop in Chestnut Hill on Germantown Ave and the stations in Germantown both on Chelten Ave.


Ever since I started taking regional rail I have always wished that they would enclose the tracks, raise the platforms and run the trains much more frequently. There is tons and tons of potential-too many people (rightfully or not) do not see RR as a viable option for getting around. It does not have to just be a commuter rail-we can at least start by running trains later with more frequent service.


It seems it would be possible to make routes more efficient as well-like the waste of time from the Chestnut Hill West going to Broad and Glenwood and then all the way back West to 30th Street Station, instead of continuing SE from North Phila to Market East.

The Manayunk Line is probably the exception that proves the rule within city limits. In the suburbs you have more trains stopping in town centers.

Most people who ride the Broad Street and Market-Frankford lines are also going to, not through, Center City.

That it would take someone 30 minutes to get from North Philly to North Philly really matters little when it comes to maximizing the potential of Regional Rail.

Were it possible for me to catch a train every 10 minutes at Germantown station, I'd certainly use it as an alternative to the Broad Street Line; it takes only 15 minutes for the train to get to Jefferson Station. I can walk to Germantown station in 10 minutes; it would take me 30 to walk to Olney, which is an 8-minute bus ride away.

Well it matters to the extent that there was a ton of money put into the through-routing of the regional rail lines where you can simply look at the map and see how few of the routes actually made sense and would even be conceived of if building a system from scratch. Glenside Combined to the Airport is about the only one. I think Manayunk is still lined up with Wilmington - a better match could probably be found for that. Otherwise you have a whole lot of lines making a pretty big loop that is not competitive with cars at all.

A lot of the NYC subway system is through routed as well - but what exists makes sense to some extent. As far as trains going from Brooklyn to the Bronx, for instance - and being something people would actually use to go from Brooklyn to the Bronx when they wanted to because it's better than driving.

As far as the CHE running every 10 minutes (and presumably the Fox Chase as well )- I'm sure you know that would likely require more than the current four track main line. And like you said, it's only an 8 minute bus ride to Olney and a 14 minute subway right to Market Street from there - so the upside seems pretty negligible. The commute from most anywhere in Germantown is already an easy one, if not a one-seat ride, and not worth turning it into a 6 track mainline for - if this is even possible through much of North Philadelphia.

Wayne Junction and Temple University are already existing test runs for this, really. With great frequency, one seat rides to Center City, including University City Station, and cheap fares (zone 1 is 10 dollars more a month than a transpass)....where are all the riders at these stations?

The other thing it lacks is destinations along the way that would also drive ridership outside of Center City commuters. Shopping corridors, transfer points, like an actual rapid transit system would have, and part the problem with the location of the stations being good railroad station.

Also it seems like an actual rapid transit system would have more frequent stops along the mainline too, or at least the option - local and express service. You already have that at Lehigh - but perhaps you'd want to open up a lot of stations where there were stations long ago (mostly closed due to streetcars and the BSL taking over service....which is still the case today).

I still think this city is missing the most important changes it could make in transit by creating BRT lines across the city with real infrastructure. It's just a no-brainer to me, but it would require leadership. I'm curious to see what comes of this:

SEPTA looks to Texas for ideas for bus route redesign

I've been a little outside of the loop....but SEPTA is days away from introducing something like this on Roosevelt Blvd. Maybe Sandy knows more about this

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

It seems it would be possible to make routes more efficient as well-like the waste of time from the Chestnut Hill West going to Broad and Glenwood and then all the way back West to 30th Street Station, instead of continuing SE from North Phila to Market East.

Enabling such routing for CHW trains was the goal of the never-built Swampoodle Connector, which would have connected the Chestnut Hill West and Manayunk/Norristown branch tracks at the point where they run next to each other just NW of CP 16th St. Junction on the ex-RDG main.

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

I've been a little outside of the loop....but SEPTA is days away from introducing something like this on Roosevelt Blvd. Maybe Sandy knows more about this

AFAIK, the BRT-lite service on Roosevelt Blvd should be considered "proof of concept." Anything further will probably await the conclusion of the city's study of the Boulevard corridor, which should be wrapping up about now - assuming OTIS continued what MOTU began.

The Boulevard still deserves real, full-blown, "heavy" rail rapid transit - but as long as no one's handing us $2 billion or so free and clear, it won't get it.

I don't know whether any additional BRT-style service will be recommended when SEPTA completes its rethink of city bus service. I can think of a few corridors - Frankford Avenue in the Northeast and Allegheny Avenue across North Philly to begin with - that would benefit from it.

[nimshady123]

I would love BRT along Frankford or Allegheny. The 60 is way too slow. And yes the northeast really does need heavy rail

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

AFAIK, the BRT-lite service on Roosevelt Blvd should be considered "proof of concept." Anything further will probably await the conclusion of the city's study of the Boulevard corridor, which should be wrapping up about now - assuming OTIS continued what MOTU began.

The Boulevard still deserves real, full-blown, "heavy" rail rapid transit - but as long as no one's handing us $2 billion or so free and clear, it won't get it.

I don't know whether any additional BRT-style service will be recommended when SEPTA completes its rethink of city bus service. I can think of a few corridors - Frankford Avenue in the Northeast and Allegheny Avenue across North Philly to begin with - that would benefit from it.

Roosevelt BLVD should be full blown BRT. There's no reason it shouldn't. You can't run a POC with something half-a**ed and expect it to prove something else.

As far as BRT is concerned, many bus lines would benefit from it. Many. Nearly every bus passing through Center City goes through a meat grinder of backed up traffic with 12th street being particularly horrible. We have a bus lane on Market that people stop and park in with no policing and buses swerving into traffic. For a city this size and a bus system that is by far the most used form of transit, dedicated BRT lanes with real infrastructure grade separation would change transit in Philadelphia in an incredible way. It would likely change gentrification patterns too. And it's far cheaper than building rail.

[KansastoSouthphilly]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Roosevelt BLVD should be full blown BRT. There's no reason it shouldn't. You can't run a POC with something half-a**ed and expect it to prove something else.

As far as BRT is concerned, many bus lines would benefit from it. Many. Nearly every bus passing through Center City goes through a meat grinder of backed up traffic with 12th street being particularly horrible. We have a bus lane on Market that people stop and park in with no policing and buses swerving into traffic. For a city this size and a bus system that is by far the most used form of transit, dedicated BRT lanes with real infrastructure grade separation would change transit in Philadelphia in an incredible way. It would likely change gentrification patterns too. And it's far cheaper than building rail.

Which bus lines would you convert to BRT? The streets being so narrow seems like a challenge. I would imagine in places like south philly you would have to do away with parking on one side of the street?

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by KansastoSouthphilly

Which bus lines would you convert to BRT? The streets being so narrow seems like a challenge. I would imagine in places like south philly you would have to do away with parking on one side of the street?

Ha - you just might get AJ going on that one...









I would actually like to see some form of BRT on Washington (connecting to U City or even 30th) and even DE ave with a connection to the Navy yard looping around


Also 25th (I think is right) might be another option for BRT, also going to the Navy Yard and up into and through U City and into the Art Museum and Pennsy cut - this could also leverage anything ever built in the railyard somehow

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by KansastoSouthphilly

Which bus lines would you convert to BRT? The streets being so narrow seems like a challenge. I would imagine in places like south philly you would have to do away with parking on one side of the street?

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Ha - you just might get AJ going on that one...









I would actually like to see some form of BRT on Washington (connecting to U City or even 30th) and even DE ave with a connection to the Navy yard looping around


Also 25th (I think is right) might be another option for BRT, also going to the Navy Yard and up into and through U City and into the Art Museum and Pennsy cut - this could also leverage anything ever built in the railyard somehow

Haha, KP is right. As a first step, I would designate bus only infrastructure on the right side of the road for the bus lines going through Center City. They would be bus lines that flow into the infrastructure which ends outside CC, improving flow while they are in the most traffic-choked portion of the city. If someone decided to driving into that lane when it starts, tickets should be 3pts on the license and $1,000+; policed heavily. I would place new bus stops like the trolley stops where necessary, but again, have the BRT line with infrastructure and grade separation so some dumb*** doesn't stop to pick-up his girlfriend while talking on the phone and have everything behind him come to a grinding halt.

Also, I would do something to make Market and JFK streamlined so there aren't 6 buses back to back waiting to stop. There are many options there.

I also agree with KP on Washington, Delaware, and would add Ben Franklin Pkwy from City Hall to the Museum (maybe even a loop), and you could also include University City in the mix since there's more breathing room.

As a second phase, I would expand to at least some of the busiest lines outside of CC, including the 45. Remove one lane of parking. Let people cry bloody murder, but they're streets owned by the city and made for moving people. Not for Big Tony and his four SUVs to be parked for a meager $35 per year.

[Pine to Vine]

Groundbreaking for impressive new housing complex at Temple: https://philly.curbed.com/2017/10/12...groundbreaking.

Not sure about the architecture. It looks like pieces from different puzzles haphazardly slapped together. Hoping this is simply an unflattering rendering.