Philadelphia 2035 (Reading, Chester, Norristown: cost, centers, safe)

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Forever 21 will be replacing Daffy's at 17th and Chestnut

Forever21 Replacing Daffy's? - Curbed Philly

Gonna miss the place. I used to find good stuff for cheap in there - especially ties and belts.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

SEPTA Moves Forward with Plans to Extend Norristown High-Speed Line to King of Prussia - Norristown, PA Patch

It's about time. I'm not sure if this will save any time vs. taking the 124/125 bus but the duration of the trip will certainly be more predictable.

Hopefully they can trim a lot of cost from this project by scaling it back. Part of the hold-up was the fantastical "Schuylkill Valley Metro" and having the Route 100 meet it at Port Kennedy. Eliminating that last stop or at least pushing it back to "Later Years" in the funding scheme should get it done much quicker.

It's gonna be a huge boost in ridership for the Route 100 as well as for the El, 101 and 102 trolleys . . . now if they would just connect the Radnor Stations for the Route 100 and R5/Paoli Line.

[Marius Pontmercy]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

SEPTA Moves Forward with Plans to Extend Norristown High-Speed Line to King of Prussia - Norristown, PA Patch

I don't get this at all. Who is going to take a multi-seat ride from Philadelphia to go to the King of Prussia Mall? KOP is so autocentric as it is that you almost can't rail commute a job there either, unless your employer provides a shuttle bus at the station. IMO, KOP is hardly ideal for getting rail service. It wasn't built for it. That money could be better spent elsewhere in the system.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

I don't get this at all. Who is going to take a multi-seat ride from Philadelphia to go to the King of Prussia Mall? KOP is so autocentric as it is that you almost can't rail commute a job there either, unless your employer provides a shuttle bus at the station. IMO, KOP is hardly ideal for getting rail service. It wasn't built for it. That money could be better spent elsewhere in the system.

The mall is indoors.

This is where the station would be. What's difficult to understand?
https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo_expl...sc&user=628968

The 2nd stop would be in the vicinity of 1st Ave. & American Ave. which puts most of the KOP office/warehouse complex within a 10 minute walk of the station.

Do you realize that there are already 6 bus routes serving the mall with 2 coming express from Center City and one running up from 69th St?

8000 people a day are already taking a 2 seat ride on the Route 100 to get into the City. Why would it be any different in the reverse direction?

Some 10,000 people per day are getting off of PATCO to get onto the El at 8th & Market. Not sure why it's a stretch for KOP for all of the people who are already reverse commuting.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

I don't get this at all. Who is going to take a multi-seat ride from Philadelphia to go to the King of Prussia Mall? KOP is so autocentric as it is that you almost can't rail commute a job there either, unless your employer provides a shuttle bus at the station. IMO, KOP is hardly ideal for getting rail service. It wasn't built for it. That money could be better spent elsewhere in the system.

I agree would rather see some form of extended Heavy rail such as this

MapQuest Maps - Driving Directions - Map

This would replace the Norristown RR line and link with the NHSL which would still run and serve as a connection to Norristown (and the new high speed heavy rail line) . Also link the art museum area and out along Fairmont park plus connect with the BSL. A one seat ride to Philly or from Philly - yes a pipe dream but this is kind of infrastructure that to me would help foster new development all along the new line.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

The mall is indoors.

This is where the station would be. What's difficult to understand?
https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo_expl...sc&user=628968

The 2nd stop would be in the vicinity of 1st Ave. & American Ave. which puts most of the KOP office/warehouse complex within a 10 minute walk of the station.

Do you realize that there are already 6 bus routes serving the mall with 2 coming express from Center City and one running up from 69th St?

8000 people a day are already taking a 2 seat ride on the Route 100 to get into the City. Why would it be any different in the reverse direction?

Some 10,000 people per day are getting off of PATCO to get onto the El at 8th & Market. Not sure why it's a stretch for KOP for all of the people who are already reverse commuting.

How long is the two seat ride to city Hall. Just curious if this is really an option for commuters to Center City. And if extending to KOP why not extend to oaks or collegeville or even royersford?


Also would there be capacity for double length cars on the current line into 69th street?

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

I agree would rather see some form of extended Heavy rail such as this

MapQuest Maps - Driving Directions - Map

FYI - Route 100 is heavy rail.

You do realize that the KOP spur will cost +/- $300 million and that a 22 mile long heavy rail line like what you described would likely cost $7 billion, right?

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

FYI - Route 100 is heavy rail.

You do realize that the KOP spur will cost +/- $300 million and that a 22 mile long heavy rail line like what you described would likely cost $7 billion, right?

Not sure - But also remember this links in the AM area, parts of North Philly and would use almost exclusively existing ROW. Maybe I need to take the NHSL sometime to see the pain factor from CC out there with the two seat ride. 76 is pretty painful itself...

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

How long is the two seat ride to city Hall. Just curious if this is really an option for commuters to Center City. And if extending to KOP why not extend to oaks or collegeville or even royersford?

The trip time on the Route 100+El is identical to taking the R6/Norristown Line which is 45-50 minutes. The Route 100 express takes 24 minutes to get from Bridgeport to 69th St. The El takes ~15 minutes to get from 69th St. to City Hall.


I don't understand the "is this an option" question. The Route 100 already exists. A few thousand people already ride it to their jobs in Center City/University City. The extension to KOP would have the same trip time as the route already has to Norristown.

KOP is a huge trip attractor. It has a few million square feet of retail, thousands of jobs, a hotel or two, one of the new stations is going to be a big park & ride, etc, etc. If this thing gets built I also expect demand for residential around KOP to increase.

Once you get across the Schuylkill there's no such density of anything (to Oaks, Collegville, etc). There aren't enough people or office parks to justify 20 miles of heavy rail. When rail gets out that way it's going to be regional rail with hourly headways and it's most likely going to start off as diesel. Montgomery County has already been looking into diesel service from the Norristown TC to Quakertown. IMO, diesel service from Norristown TC should already be running to to Pottstown/Reading and to Quakertown. For the cost of a siding and a few switches to turn the trains they could be run as far as Temple where riders could transfer to any other inbound or outbound RR train.

Also would there be capacity for double length cars on the current line into 69th street?

These are already in use during rush hour.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

The trip time on the Route 100+El is identical to taking the R6/Norristown Line which is 45-50 minutes. The Route 100 express takes 24 minutes to get from Bridgeport to 69th St. The El takes ~15 minutes to get from 69th St. to City Hall.


I don't understand the "is this an option" question. The Route 100 already exists. A few thousand people already ride it to their jobs in Center City/University City. The extension to KOP would have the same trip time as the route already has to Norristown.

KOP is a huge trip attractor. It has a few million square feet of retail, thousands of jobs, a hotel or two, one of the new stations is going to be a big park & ride, etc, etc. If this thing gets built I also expect demand for residential around KOP to increase.

Once you get across the Schuylkill there's no such density of anything (to Oaks, Collegville, etc). There aren't enough people or office parks to justify 20 miles of heavy rail. When rail gets out that way it's going to be regional rail with hourly headways and it's most likely going to start off as diesel. Montgomery County has already been looking into diesel service from the Norristown TC to Quakertown. IMO, diesel service from Norristown TC should already be running to to Pottstown/Reading and to Quakertown. For the cost of a siding and a few switches to turn the trains they could be run as far as Temple where riders could transfer to any other inbound or outbound RR train.



These are already in use during rush hour.

Thanks. My points are more increased utility/more a park and ride. If the time savings isnt substantial to a car it will likely only have limited success in new riders. (a park and ride say off 23 and 422 still requires the slow crawl down 422 in the first place)


Also an extension down 202 or 422 could have new TOD opportunities for residents and business. This area in general is one that needs better rail connectivity. This is second largest job market for the metro