Is there that much crime in Philly?? (Philadelphia, Drexel Hill: school, taxes)

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by mancat100

Nobody should be blamed for trying to give their family a better life in a better area. However, at the same time, if the good neighbors would stay put, the neighborhoods wouldn't decline. Both points are true.

I agree but you CANNOT say the blame lies equally on the people who do move out and the scum that moves in and ruins the neighborhood.! Thats plain crazy! Put the blame where it lies!
The city has to remove the wage tax and clean up the crime and improve the streets/police/services to get me to come back.. Thats how you get people to stay put. Thats what I have in Jersey. Clean, safe streets, excellent services and fair taxes. Why else would you think we are here??

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by UDResident

As I've said before, frank, I plan to raise my kids in the same district I grew up in. I already know which section of my township I want them to grow up in. If I were from the Northeast, I'd probably do the same thing there. The reason for that is that neither the Northeast nor my township is a place where one can't get a great education and have a great experience growing up. The only way that changes is if people in my township or in the Northeast fail their communities. Out of all of the places in this metro, if I could pick any district to send them to it would be that same one. I think it offers the best of all worlds and prepares kids for any situation they may encounter in life.

You make exaggerations about a very large section of the city and use them to say the entire city is full of crime and is going downhill except for a handful of neighborhoods. That is why I singled you out and tried to give some perspective so the OP doesn't get misled.

Im confused UD.. When you say township, what do you mean? There are no townships in Philly

No one mislead the op. I just cited facts on crime already out no made up by me.. By saying the city is very safe, is misleading.. Look at the stats.. They don't lie

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by jtom605

The Northeast is nothing like North Philly, but frankgn87, judging by some other posts, used to live in Oxford Circle. No, Oxford Circle has no projects, but it does widespread section 8. The future prospects for Oxford Circle are not good, and many people in the NE believe the neighborhood is already lost. There is no question at all that Oxford Circle has not declined greatly.

I am in no position to judge frankgn87's decision to move out of the Oxford Circle area, but he probably made the right choice because of falling home values and increased crime.

Now, as far as most other areas of lower NE are concerned (Lawndale, Mayfair, Holmesburg, Rhawnhurst, etc), the decline has not been nearly as rapid. Sure, there has been some decline, but not enough to make me move out of the area. I have no plans to leave lower Northeast Philly.

There was a time I could walk 15 blocks in any direction in OC and go to the mom and pop stores, take our children for walks in a wagon, see friendly neighbors who kept their sidewalks and homes spotless. now some 15+ year later, all those people are moved out or dies and in its place are loud booming rap music homes with broken swung open screen doors, dirty streets where the people throw their trash on the sidewalks, our cars being broke into and even our home broken into.. Crime now has skyrocketed in OC and all the mom and pop stores are Bodegas with food stamps signs in the windows selling water pipes behind the counter.. OC is the ghetto now..

I don't recall ever saying the NE is like North Philly either. That was someone putting words in my mouth

[UDResident]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

Im confused UD.. When you say township, what do you mean? There are no townships in Philly

No one mislead the op. I just cited facts on crime already out no made up by me.. By saying the city is very safe, is misleading.. Look at the stats.. They don't lie

It's right there in my name. I've mentioned it repeatedly since joining this site a few days ago.

No, frank, you're the one being misleading. If you want to start a thread about how Oxford Circle went downhill then feel free but that's the only place in the city you have any expertise on, and you haven't lived there in how many years now?

[NJT 9801]

Originally Posted by UDResident

It's right there in my name. I've mentioned it repeatedly since joining this site a few days ago.

UD Resident is a resident of a Delaware County Township next to Philadelphia which is seeing some decline also. Upper Darby is still a nice town, but the last thing they need is a mass exodus of good citizens. That will only spell trouble, and cause more decline.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

There was a time I could walk 15 blocks in any direction in OC and go to the mom and pop stores, take our children for walks in a wagon, see friendly neighbors who kept their sidewalks and homes spotless. now some 15+ year later, all those people are moved out or dies and in its place are loud booming rap music homes with broken swung open screen doors, dirty streets where the people throw their trash on the sidewalks, our cars being broke into and even our home broken into.. Crime now has skyrocketed in OC and all the mom and pop stores are Bodegas with food stamps signs in the windows selling water pipes behind the counter.. OC is the ghetto now..

I don't recall ever saying the NE is like North Philly either. That was someone putting words in my mouth

Much of my father's family lived in the Great Northeast as well, and my Dad bounced around Oxford Circle/Rhawnhurst/Bustleton, before "moving on up" to Cheltenham (parts of which are now starting to see some decline as well). Even the eastern terminus of Montgomery Avenue in Lower Merion is starting to see a pawn shop/cash for gold store or two. Wynnefield fell from grace. What makes the Main Line so special?

Neighborhoods, especially urban ones, are in a constant state of flux. Sometimes they change for the better. Sometimes they change for the worse. There will always be externalities. My Uncle purchased a rowhome in the far eastern corner of Upper Darby in the late 70s. Fast forward 20 years and his entire block is filled with for-sale signs. He held on as long as he possibly could--to his ultimate detriment--when by the time his house sold, it was only able to fetch a fraction more than its Carter administration-era price, leaving him in an extremely precarious financial state from which it took years to recover (he now lives in Drexel Hill). For every working/lower middle class person like my Uncle who is the victim of urban decay, there are working poor families who become victims of gentrification as their rent skyrockets beyond figures even remotely manageable.

Blame gets cast. It's those damn yuppies, those damn ghetto rats. Whites, blacks, Koreans, Puerto Ricans, Jews, Gentiles. People are always on the move. If you've had family in Philadelphia (or any urban area) long enough, you've probably heard family members complain about what happened to the "old neighborhood," no matter what your background.

We all like to think we're something special, whether on an individual, familial, or group sense (ethnic or otherwise). But there are really no unconditional entitlements in life, and sometimes the things we cherish so dearly slip from our fingers and disappear entirely.

Hold on to the good memories, because it's really the people who make up the neighborhood--not the neighborhood itself--that give it life and character. Much of the Northeast may no longer be "ours," Frank, but the new people who inhabit our old neighborhoods are creating something of their own, and even if the end product doesn't suit our fancy, hopefully it will suit theirs.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Much of my father's family lived in the Great Northeast as well, and my Dad bounced around Oxford Circle/Rhawnhurst/Bustleton, before "moving on up" to Cheltenham (parts of which are now starting to see some decline as well). Even the eastern terminus of Montgomery Avenue in Lower Merion is starting to see a pawn shop/cash for gold store or two. Wynnefield fell from grace. What makes the Main Line so special?

Wynnefield is a neighborhood in West Philadelphia, not the Main Line.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Wynnefield is a neighborhood in West Philadelphia, not the Main Line.

I'm aware. It's also adjacent/has a similar infrastructure/housing stock to surrounding Bala, Cynwyd, and Merion. People would have looked at you sideways 70 years ago if you told them rich, Jewish Wynnefield was on its way to becoming a working/middle class black neighborhood. Hence, since it happened to Wynnefield, it can happen to the Eastern Main Line as well.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

I'm aware. It's also adjacent/has a similar infrastructure/housing stock to surrounding Bala, Cynwyd, and Merion. People would have looked at you sideways 70 years ago if you told them rich, Jewish Wynnefield was on its way to becoming a working/middle class black neighborhood. Hence, since it happened to Wynnefield, it can happen to the Eastern Main Line as well.

Maybe, but doubt that will happen in our lifetime.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Maybe, but doubt that will happen in our lifetime.

I don't know about you, but I'm 23 and plan on living quite a long time.

I'm not implying that a "downfall" of the Main Line is imminent, but it's not at all beyond the realm of possibility that its denser, pedestrian-friendly parts could start to change. Probably won't happen anytime soon, but it certainly could in theory.