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It is January 29th... there have been 18 murders so far this year... doesn't sound like a murder every half hour. While I agree, the murder rate is high, I think you over exaggerate just a bit
I didn't say there was a murder every half hour....there was a murder at 12:30am Jan 1st, which is a half hour into the new year....that's what I said.
Whether or not it's true a lot of people not from the area view Philadelphia as a dangerous city. Philadelphia population 1.5 million, 329 murders. NYC 8.2 million people, 414 murders. Personally, I don't find Philly to be that dangerous as long as you aren't an idiot and apply some common sense but people see the stats and it alarms them.
I think one of the biggest reasons that Philly is cheaper than other east coast cities like NY and Boston is the extremely high homicide rate. Whether you love or hate Philly and all that it offers there is no getting around the FACT that Philly has a pretty high murder rate. I think the last stat I saw was around 21.2 murders per 100,000 people. The US average is about 4.8. To put this in perspective Japan has a rate around .83, Germany .81, Norway .68. Phillies murder rate is about 4.5X the US average and 26X Japan's rate.
I've lived in Philly area for about 12 years now, originally I'm from upstate NY...for those that think winter in philly is rough, in upstate NY we measure our snow in feet not inches. I like the blue collar less hoitey toitey populace here in Philly but the news is downright depressing at times. It's hard for an outsider to get used to hearing about a shooting or murder every single evening. I don't even watch the news anymore cause it makes me angry, depressed, sad etc. This year the first murder in the city happened at 12:30am....we can't go half an hour into the new year without someone getting their life snuffed out by some worthless piece of garbage.
There's a lot to like about Philly but I'm sure many of us would like a lot fewer murders and crime in general.
It doesn't make much sense to compare the murder rate in Philadelphia (or any city in the US) to Japan or Norway, some of the safest countries on the planet. The US is the most violent industrialized country in the World and is overloaded with guns and drugs, especially in inner city communities that have been deindustrialized and abandoned.
Cities like Chicago and DC are more comparable to Philadelphia on crime. Sadly, crime is usually isolated in poor communities, which is why most Philadelphians and posters on CD don't think much about it. DC doesn't seem to have any trouble getting outsiders to live there even though the murder rate is very comparable to Philly, 21.9. Chicago is continuing to have a near murder epidemic, on pace for over 700 this year. NYC has done a great job in decreasing crime recently but 2012 was the lowest murder total there since the 1960's. Believe it or not, NYC had over 2,200 murders in 1990. Crime has been decreasing there ever since due to increase in police, cameras, stop and frisk but there are many people that will tell you they'd much rather live in New York during the 1990's than today's more generic and corporate version.
Crime is a huge problem, but income disparity, lack of opportunity in urban communities and the racist war on "drugs" are issues that need to be addressed first. If individual cities reduce their crime rate, like New York, DC and San Francisco but crime rates increase in surrounding communities, what has really been accomplished?
The economy, weather, crime, lack of real vibrant downtown that's 24hr like NY, SF, Chi and Seattle, ample housing and recently revived and hyped up city that has yet to reach the regional real estate prices(areas beyond Center City and some other gentified neighborhoods).
Chicago does not have a 24hour downtown. Not even close.
It doesn't make much sense to compare the murder rate in Philadelphia (or any city in the US) to Japan or Norway, some of the safest countries on the planet. The US is the most violent industrialized country in the World and is overloaded with guns and drugs, especially in inner city communities that have been deindustrialized and abandoned.
Cities like Chicago and DC are more comparable to Philadelphia on crime. Sadly, crime is usually isolated in poor communities, which is why most Philadelphians and posters on CD don't think much about it. DC doesn't seem to have any trouble getting outsiders to live there even though the murder rate is very comparable to Philly, 21.9. Chicago is continuing to have a near murder epidemic, on pace for over 700 this year. NYC has done a great job in decreasing crime recently but 2012 was the lowest murder total there since the 1960's. Believe it or not, NYC had over 2,200 murders in 1990. Crime has been decreasing there ever since due to increase in police, cameras, stop and frisk but there are many people that will tell you they'd much rather live in New York during the 1990's than today's more generic and corporate version.
Crime is a huge problem, but income disparity, lack of opportunity in urban communities and the racist war on "drugs" are issues that need to be addressed first. If individual cities reduce their crime rate, like New York, DC and San Francisco but crime rates increase in surrounding communities, what has really been accomplished?
I agree. I don't think all this discussion of the murder rate is particularly relevant.
The high murder rate is mainly due directly and indirectly to factors that arose from having large concentrations of poverty (the drug trade,etc). But that poverty didn't happen because of murders.
And real estate in Philly in areas without high crime or murders is also relatively quite cheap. Why is that?
Maybe a few people move away because of scary stories on the news, but overall I think that real estate and the murder rate are only minimally related.
As you noted, DC real estate has gotten very expensive, and has trumped the crime rate in adjacent areas as a deterrent. This is simply because people HAVE to be there for their jobs and careers which are based there, and will make lifestyle adjustments to do that. Same with NYC. Most people (myself included) didn't move to NYC for restaurant options or whatever, and no one moves here because it's a great bargain.
However the opposite thing, that increased real estate prices can lead to a lower crime rate, is true. I think the lowered crime in NYC has at least as much to do with poverty being pushed and isolated into smaller concentrations, and/or out of the city completely, as it had to do with policing methods.
Also, there are a lot of job opportunities for poor people in NYC, and working poor don't commit crimes so much, because they are busy working.
Not that this is news to anyone, but I think that providing enough satisfying job opportunities - for professionals as well as for working class people - is Philly's greatest challenge, and would go the furthest towards solving so many of the city's problems.
I didn't say there was a murder every half hour....there was a murder at 12:30am Jan 1st, which is a half hour into the new year....that's what I said.
Whether or not it's true a lot of people not from the area view Philadelphia as a dangerous city. Philadelphia population 1.5 million, 329 murders. NYC 8.2 million people, 414 murders. Personally, I don't find Philly to be that dangerous as long as you aren't an idiot and apply some common sense but people see the stats and it alarms them.
Right, and NYC was in Philadelphia's position not too long ago. Remember from the late 60's until the late 90's when NYC had over 1500 murders a year? Yeah that happened. People seem to forget about that.
Philadelphia really is in the position that NYC was in 20 years ago. Except, the crime is not nearly as bad in Philadelphia as it was in NYC 20 years ago. Philadelphia is just coming out of period of decline, and reinventing itself, and while there are pockets of the city that are infact dangerous, it is pretty misleading to suggest that the entire city is dangerous. There are MANY factors and social problems in the U.S. that lead to higher murder rates in U.S. cities from gun control issues, high concentration of poverty, the war on drugs, suburbanization leading to the disinvestment of the city, de-industrialization leading to a lack of jobs for the working class, etc. etc... and these are all issues solely related to the U.S. and U.S. cities alone that other countries necessarily do not have to deal with. To compare a U.S. city to other countries is kind of unfair, because of these unfortunate issues and this unfortunate position that the U.S. put itself into.
There are far worse cities for crime in the U.S. like Oakland, Detroit, New Orleans, Compton, Baltimore, Memphis, Cleveland, etc. etc. etc.... Philadelphia is fairing much better than most cities listed above. There are also other crimes besides murder, and I don't understand why suburbanites are so fixated on and obsessed with murder, which is the LEAST likely event to happen. You have a better chance of dying in a car accident than being murdered, yet suburbanites still drive everyday. Other cities have MUCH higher property crimes, etc. For instance, Portland, which is widely regarded as a safe city, has over double the amount of property crimes that Philadelphia has... that doesn't seem very safe to me.
This conversation of murder rate really is not relevant to the discussion of "why is Philadelphia cheaper than other East Coast cities?"... it really has nothing to do with the murder rate, and if that were the case, why is Oakland so expensive, when it has one of the highest murder rates in the country?
Let's stop being so obsessed with murder and this "OMG I'M GONNA DIE" mentality. Chill out, seriously, you will be fine. If anyone is afraid to come to the city, then sucks for them, because they are missing out on a great time.
I mean, I know I'm living here because I'm dodging a constant barrage of bullets outside of my front door on a daily basis
Right, and NYC was in Philadelphia's position not too long ago. Remember from the late 60's until the late 90's when NYC had over 1500 murders a year? Yeah that happened. People seem to forget about that.
Philadelphia really is in the position that NYC was in 20 years ago. Except, the crime is not nearly as bad in Philadelphia as it was in NYC 20 years ago. Philadelphia is just coming out of period of decline, and reinventing itself, and while there are pockets of the city that are infact dangerous, it is pretty misleading to suggest that the entire city is dangerous. There are MANY factors and social problems in the U.S. that lead to higher murder rates in U.S. cities from gun control issues, high concentration of poverty, the war on drugs, suburbanization leading to the disinvestment of the city, de-industrialization leading to a lack of jobs for the working class, etc. etc... and these are all issues solely related to the U.S. and U.S. cities alone that other countries necessarily do not have to deal with. To compare a U.S. city to other countries is kind of unfair, because of these unfortunate issues and this unfortunate position that the U.S. put itself into.
There are far worse cities for crime in the U.S. like Oakland, Detroit, New Orleans, Compton, Baltimore, Memphis, Cleveland, etc. etc. etc.... Philadelphia is fairing much better than most cities listed above. There are also other crimes besides murder, and I don't understand why suburbanites are so fixated on and obsessed with murder, which is the LEAST likely event to happen. You have a better chance of dying in a car accident than being murdered, yet suburbanites still drive everyday. Other cities have MUCH higher property crimes, etc. For instance, Portland, which is widely regarded as a safe city, has over double the amount of property crimes that Philadelphia has... that doesn't seem very safe to me.
This conversation of murder rate really is not relevant to the discussion of "why is Philadelphia cheaper than other East Coast cities?"... it really has nothing to do with the murder rate, and if that were the case, why is Oakland so expensive, when it has one of the highest murder rates in the country?
Let's stop being so obsessed with murder and this "OMG I'M GONNA DIE" mentality. Chill out, seriously, you will be fine. If anyone is afraid to come to the city, then sucks for them, because they are missing out on a great time.
I mean, I know I'm living here because I'm dodging a constant barrage of bullets outside of my front door on a daily basis
I work on Temple Med School Campus. I was getting ready to leave one night 2 weeks ago but then remembered I had something I had to check up on so I went to the tissue culture room, 5 minutes later a female coworker who had already left, came back into the lab. She was walking down Vernango St to go to her car but said as she turned the corner she saw 2 asian guys running down the street telling her to run. They had been robbed at gun point and pistol whipped. If I had left when I was going to...that would've been me. Police now patrol the area during rush hour to prevent more armed robberies.
A friend of mine who works on Temple Main campus, was going to his car when he heard a girl screaming so he went to check it out and scared off 2 guys in the middle of raping her. Crap like this is making me think about moving to another city and applying for a different job.
So yeah, safety is a concern of mine. And yes there are worse places like Detroit....their housing is even cheaper than Philly. Oakland is expensive, it is also in CA which is pretty expensive everywhere. Most of the other listed places are cheaper than Philly.
The only reason I bring up other countries and the US average is that people who see and hear about these things all the time get desensitized to it. It becomes normal to hear about a couple murders a week. And the fact that it becomes so normal is the saddest part of it all.
And why are people taking these knocks on philly so personally? Fine, if it makes you all feel better, there is nothing wrong with Philly, it is the best place on the planet, they have a huge influx of young professionals and have no trouble keeping their own graduates. The weather is nicer than San Diego 's all year long, better shopping and food than NYC, and cleaner streets and subway stations than Toronto. And crime has nothing to do with real estate prices...that's why Chestnut Hill homes are the same price as West Philly housing.
I think the lowered crime in NYC has at least as much to do with poverty being pushed and isolated into smaller concentrations, and/or out of the city completely, as it had to do with policing methods.
I used to assume this but it's really not true - not here or there.
The biggest % declines in crime happened/are happening in the neighborhoods where crime was/is the worst.
that's why Chestnut Hill homes are the same price as West Philly housing.
It depends on where in West Philly you are talking about and what kind of house.
Since there are no 3 or 4 acre estates with houses that are 7000 sq. ft. in West Philly it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison but you will find 2-3000 s/f homes in both parts of the city for ~$600k.
Anyway, as I pointed out several pages ago, home prices everywhere in the Delaware Valley are much cheaper than a lot of other coastal metros. If real estate prices simply came down to crime then half the towns in the suburbs would have $1million houses. They don't - because it's not that simple.
Our housing is cheap because there's a regional over-supply of housing. Period.
I work on Temple Med School Campus. I was getting ready to leave one night 2 weeks ago but then remembered I had something I had to check up on so I went to the tissue culture room, 5 minutes later a female coworker who had already left, came back into the lab. She was walking down Vernango St to go to her car but said as she turned the corner she saw 2 asian guys running down the street telling her to run. They had been robbed at gun point and pistol whipped. If I had left when I was going to...that would've been me. Police now patrol the area during rush hour to prevent more armed robberies.
A friend of mine who works on Temple Main campus, was going to his car when he heard a girl screaming so he went to check it out and scared off 2 guys in the middle of raping her. Crap like this is making me think about moving to another city and applying for a different job.
Okay. Think that stuff doesn't happen in other cities? Good luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by homelessguy
And why are people taking these knocks on philly so personally? Fine, if it makes you all feel better, there is nothing wrong with Philly, it is the best place on the planet, they have a huge influx of young professionals and have no trouble keeping their own graduates. The weather is nicer than San Diego 's all year long, better shopping and food than NYC, and cleaner streets and subway stations than Toronto. And crime has nothing to do with real estate prices...that's why Chestnut Hill homes are the same price as West Philly housing.
Yep. Basically. Glad you see it too.
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