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Old 09-14-2013, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
33,076 posts, read 61,908,019 times
Reputation: 55506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
PA (and Philly in particular) already have high sales taxes . . . the more you increase the tax, the more business leaves the state and city.
Pennsylvania's statewide sales tax is quite average, unless you're comparing it to states that have no income tax.

So how do the various regions in the state support their public transit, then?
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
2,377 posts, read 2,696,815 times
Reputation: 1492
To be fair SEPTA has a lot of little mistakes...

  • The 15th station somehow manages to poorly connect any of the 4 that stop there, MFL, BSL, the trollys and regional rail.
  • No MFL stops inbetween 30th and 15th
  • Is the BSL spur or express actually needed (anymore)?
  • 69th station is a mess
  • PATCO really needs to go through market not locust (not septa but still)


Also commuting in the suburbs is a disaster.


I wonder how philly could rework things if dropped half it's regional rail and trollys? Or how much it would damage it? What would SEPTA look like if it was private and only operated on it's rider's fares?
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,856 posts, read 7,893,940 times
Reputation: 1590
Short of funding, SEPTA unveils doomsday plan

SMH at this quote:
"It's a very small minority of people who actually ride the buses," Metcalfe said. "It's hundreds of millions of dollars for a very small percentage of the population of our state." He said transit should be run as private, for-profit operations. He acknowledged he did not know of any companies seeking to take over transit agencies, which were originally created to take over from bankrupt private companies.
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,472 posts, read 3,487,882 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
PA (and Philly in particular) already have high sales taxes . . . the more you increase the tax, the more business leaves the state and city.
Clearly you're an economist. Sales tax rate in nyc is nearly 9%.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,472 posts, read 3,487,882 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNigh View Post
To be fair SEPTA has a lot of little mistakes...

  • The 15th station somehow manages to poorly connect any of the 4 that stop there, MFL, BSL, the trollys and regional rail.
  • No MFL stops inbetween 30th and 15th
  • Is the BSL spur or express actually needed (anymore)?
  • 69th station is a mess
  • PATCO really needs to go through market not locust (not septa but still)


Also commuting in the suburbs is a disaster.


I wonder how philly could rework things if dropped half it's regional rail and trollys? Or how much it would damage it? What would SEPTA look like if it was private and only operated on it's rider's fares?
Are you serious? Practically all of the "mistakes" that you think septa made have NOTHING to do with SEPTA. Most of these decisions were made by the rail companies a century ago, decades before SEPTA even existed.

Commuting from the suburbs is a "disaster"? REALLY? SEPTA has one of the most extensive and successful commuter rail services in the country.

And even if you did blame SEPTA for these mistakes and even if you felt it's suburban access should be better... your solution is to what? cut their funding? WOW. Sounds like a great idea.

Privatize SEPTA? Do you have no concept of history? Of the facts of the matter? Before Septa existed the system was owned by a bunch of private rail companies that failed and collapsed and SEPTA was designed to run the system instead.

Here's an idea of equal intellectual caliber: how about we privatize all highways and roads and stop subsidizing the auto industry and gas prices. You'll have to pay a toll to drive everywhere in your car that cost twice much, filled with gas that cost ten times as much. Roads that don't get enough traffic will crumble away to nothing. no one will be able to get anywhere and the economy will tank as modern civilization as we know it will cease to be, but who cares? because now we all get to pay lower taxes! whoopee!

I swear, half of the people in this country don't even understand the basic tenants of government. You see you pay taxes and then the government provides services that private entities couldn't like police and fire protection and roads and rails AND QUALITY EDUCATION..... Ugh why bother? this country is doomed.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:24 AM
 
Location: FW, Indiander
1,034 posts, read 1,406,947 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNigh View Post
To be fair SEPTA has a lot of little mistakes...[list][*]No MFL stops inbetween 30th and 15th
It's not needed when you have 2 trolley stops, plus adding a stop would just slow the ride down

Quote:
Is the BSL spur or express actually needed (anymore)?
When it's crowded during rush hours and on Saturdays with folks going to the Gallery then yes it is needed. An express train on a weekend is a plus not to mention the employees going to Market East/Independence Hall

Quote:
Also commuting in the suburbs is a disaster.
Depends which suburbs. The further out you go the more limited it gets since the population isn't there.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Montco PA
2,065 posts, read 4,292,195 times
Reputation: 1478
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNigh View Post
Also commuting in the suburbs is a disaster.


I wonder how philly could rework things if dropped half it's regional rail and trollys? Or how much it would damage it? What would SEPTA look like if it was private and only operated on it's rider's fares?

Not really. SEPTA's system provides excellent coverage to parts of Montgomery County and Delaware County and decent coverage to parts of all 4 suburban counties. If you name part of a county with poor coverage, chances are it used to be covered until SEPTA cancelled the diesel routes. Upper Bucks? Previously covered. 422 corridor? Previously covered. Down toward West Chester? Previously covered. The only way this coverage will ever come back is with MORE funding, not less. Highways don't expand, or get widened, or get fixed, without outside funding (except for the Turnpike, but in that case it's because of the very high tolls that are charged, and even then the Turnpike is decades behind where it should be in terms of improvements).

There are no private companies willing to operate public transit systems. Even Metcalfe concedes this. Also, as was stated above, the for-profit railroads ran the passenger systems as offshoots of their money-making freight lines. And we all know what happened to the for-profit railroads of 50-100 years ago. Public transportation is a very important and necessary function. Other regions would kill for a system like SEPTA has. I live and work in the 'burbs and use SEPTA about twice a year. However, I would be happy to know that a few dollars per month of my fuel bill was going to repair/maintain/expand SEPTA and the other transit agencies in PA (plus our highways and bridges).

The last time SEPTA went on strike, the traffic on Route 422 was even worse than normal, which is amazing considering SEPTA provides no train coverage and limited bus coverage along 422. That shows you how important SEPTA is. I'd hate to be a resident of a place like Abington, Ambler, Media, or the Main Line with reduced or eliminated SEPTA coverage. Traffic would be significantly worse, and the region's prestige and quality of life would be significantly diminished.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
2,377 posts, read 2,696,815 times
Reputation: 1492
Exactly, I don't see how they don't understand 500mil gained today will be a lot more lost tomorrow.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,520 posts, read 10,852,605 times
Reputation: 5443
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPP1999 View Post
...Traffic would be significantly worse, and the region's prestige and quality of life would be significantly diminished.
Not to mention states like New Jersey and Delaware would be greatly affected by SEPTA's doomsday scenario as well. It would be more on the lines of a ripple effect since the Philly area is a multi-state metropolis.
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:35 PM
 
364 posts, read 620,116 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPP1999 View Post
There are no private companies willing to operate public transit systems. Even Metcalfe concedes this. Also, as was stated above, the for-profit railroads ran the passenger systems as offshoots of their money-making freight lines. And we all know what happened to the for-profit railroads of 50-100 years ago. Public transportation is a very important and necessary function. Other regions would kill for a system like SEPTA has. I live and work in the 'burbs and use SEPTA about twice a year. However, I would be happy to know that a few dollars per month of my fuel bill was going to repair/maintain/expand SEPTA and the other transit agencies in PA (plus our highways and bridges).
Exactly right. I live and work in ChesCo but I have no problem paying $10-20 more per paycheck if it gets us a holistically better transit network. We just can't keep demanding tax cuts without expecting rail derailments, stranded busses, and collapsing vehicle bridges.
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