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I understand that SEPTA hasn't been properly funded in the past but how long can we use this as an excuse? Other Transit systems don't always get great state funding but some are able to find other ways to increase revenue with more local funding. I just think SEPTA needs to be more creative with its funding.
Despite SEPTA'S flaws it's still one of the best transit systems in the county. People tend to criticize SEPTA for the lack of rapid transit subway lines and it is justifiable criticism but SEPTA offers other modes of transit that help pick up the slack like a great light rail system and regional rail system that function like metro lines in Center City and parts of West Philly. Let's not forget the Norristown and PATCO high speed line which are both rapid transit. When you include all those other transit options, SEPTA is hard to beat in North America.
Nope. It's annoying because I am up there mostly on weekends, and every time before we go somewhere we have to check the app to see which lines are truncated or not even running. Talk about annoying...
The L train has been completely shut down every weekend for like two months. In April, it's getting shut down completely for 18 months so they can rebuild the tunnels. Brooklyn is screwed.
Yep, I know about the L train stuff. Hurricane Sandy repairs, I think.
Did Amazon actually think about any of this? Any big kink in NY transit will throw everything off. The mini-snow storm a couple of weeks ago was about the biggest NY transit/car mess in quite some time. And that was the same week as the Amazon announcement.
I understand that SEPTA hasn't been properly funded in the past but how long can we use this as an excuse? Other Transit systems don't always get great state funding but some are able to find other ways to increase revenue with more local funding. I just think SEPTA needs to be more creative with its funding.
Despite SEPTA'S flaws it's still one of the best transit systems in the county. People tend to criticize SEPTA for the lack of rapid transit subway lines and it is justifiable criticism but SEPTA offers other modes of transit that help pick up the slack like a great light rail system and regional rail system that function like metro lines in Center City and parts of West Philly. Let's not forget the Norristown and PATCO high speed line which are both rapid transit. When you include all those other transit options, SEPTA is hard to beat in North America.
People should keep in mind that septa was created, over time, from separate lines most of which were privately owned. To combine it all into a cohesive whole was quite an achievement.
My beef about SEPTA, beyond the frequency of Regional Rail, the cleanliness of the stations and the surliness of the employees, involves its dismissal of the casual rider.
I'm OK with paying full bus fare because I forgot to replenish my stash of tokens before that one morning when my car won't start.
I'm not OK with not being able to buy tokens and transfers at all anymore, because unlike SEPTA Key tokens, were available at my favorite grocery store and a kazillion other places, and transfers were given on demand.
I'm not OK with paying an increased train fare because SEPTA won't maintain ticket vending at every station.
I can't buy SEPTA Key at the Norristown Transportation Center? WTF?
Oh, yeah, and the bus schedules and train schedules at the Norristown Transportation Center don't mesh. On weekends it's especially ridiculous. I live within two blocks of four bus lines, so you'd think I wouldn't have to wait at the station for a bus after I get off the train. But ... the train is scheduled to arrive at the station at least 5 or 10 minutes after the buses all depart, and they all seem to depart at the same time. Plus, on weekends even the buses run only once an hour. I get off the train and have to wait another 45-50 minutes for a bus? Where's the logic in that?
Probably because lots of people don't catch the buses on the weekends due to being off work. But it should be atleast twice an hour since people still like to shop on saturdays.
No it isn't. Ever heard of MetroNorth, NJT, and LIRR? In level, frequency, and capacity of service, it is the undisputed king of commuter rail in the United States. Regional Rail is pittance in comparison, which doesn't mean it's bad, just not on the same level.
The rest of your post was pretty good though.
New York is THE statistical outlier among US cities on just about every front.
To put this in perspective: MTA New York City Transit (just that operating unit, not the LIRR, MNCR, MTA Long Island Bus, the Westchester County bus system, or the North Jersey operations of New Jersey Transit Corporation) carries two of every three mass transit riders in the entire country.
Maybe "best in the country" is inaccurate, but once you filter out New York City, SEPTA Regional Rail is probably the most comprehensive and frequent regional rail system of the remaining ones. It's also noteworthy for its unusually dense station spacing. EMU railcars are ideally suited to handle such service, though I do support purchasing dual-mode locomotives in order to restore service to non-electrified territory (Phoenixville, Quakertown...) expeditiously.
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Originally Posted by BK_PHL_DEL
I agree here. I also agree with the above post that aesthetics is pretty bad. I walk to Girard station and there is so much trash, grime, and dirt caked into the decades-outdated tile. The same an be said for pretty much any station in Center City. The stations look like a prison, are outdated and are not kept clean. Look at NYC and take my childhood subway lines for my biased example, the B/Q - many stations along that line are being updated and modernized.
It would go a long way if SEPTA devotes resources to keep stations clean. I think a layout upgrade and reconstruction of all the stations is also needed. The stations look untouched from the 80's. Compare that to subways in Asia. Even my native country Thailand has better and cleaner subways than Philly.
I know I am biased growing up in NYC but I still think it is ridiculous that there are just TWO subway lines for the whole city. I exclude regional rail here because the fares are higher and frequency is less; you don't count LIRR/NJT/Metro North when talking about NYC subways. It is also ridiculous that density is so low around many train stations.
Growing up as you did in New York City, I don't see where you get off complaining about the aesthetics of SEPTA subway stations.
Every station (subway and elevated) on the Market-Frankford Line has either been rebuilt or gotten a facelift since the 1980s, and 15th Street is in the middle of a makeover right now. The 1970s supergraphics at 5th Street/Independence Hall may look a little dated, but I wouldn't call them ugly.
And the tilework in the Broad Street Subway stations is a simple-yet-elegant design that postdates every New York City subway route except those constructed as part of the Independent Subway System, work on which began around the same time work resumed on the Broad Street Subway (1925).
The tilework on NYCT platform extensions at IRT stations is similar in appearance but slightly older than what you see at Chinatown station on the Ridge Spur. And that one follows the Philadelphia tradition of having the station name embedded in the tile rather than spelled out with mosaic tiles.
Even the 1950s subway stations here (i.e., the ones on the Market-Frankford Line and trolley subway from 22d Street west) are fairly attractive - they're sure an improvement on the bare concrete walls they had prior to their makeover at the end of the David Gunn years in the early 1980s.
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Originally Posted by Fireshaker
Well, NY obviously wins out on scale of subway coverage, but let's not pretend like those stations are anything other than frigging disgusting, too. I rode it last month when visiting friends in Washington Heights, and there was very little that was aesthetically pleasing about anything I saw. Yes, SEPTA stations can be gross; NY's can be just as gross. They're better, but still not great.
(You want great? Go to Europe. I could live in the Munich subway, it's so gorgeous.)
That said, I completely disagree about a lot of stations needing to be "modernized." Cleaned, yes, but I find the vintage tile look of a lot of the BSL stations to be very attractive, if it were properly maintained. Don't rip out attractive history just because it has a little grime on it.
Frankly, the grime is on the floors, not the walls. Otherwise, what you said (see above).
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Originally Posted by moneymkt
The only thing that bothers me about septa is I can't catch a bus from University City or Center City to Northeast.
That's what the El's for. It's quicker than riding a bus.
And what are the 21 and 42, chopped liver? Or the 31, which runs less frequently and runs under the MFL from 46th to 63d?
In general, though, I do agree that SEPTA isn't as bad as the riders say it is. But the implementation and design of SEPTA Key was a monumental clusterf**k, and the decision to withhold card kiosks from every suburban transit depot and train station other than 69th Street Terminal is simply astonishing, and incredibly customer-hostile.
It's also noteworthy for its unusually dense station spacing.
This is one thing I find incredibly annoying about Regional Rail, and the constant stopping slows the ride down considerably. It doesn't really make sense to have stops 1/2-3/4 of a mile apart on a commuter rail line if you want to move people in and out quickly.
The same goes for the trolley lines and stopping at every damn block down Baltimore and Lancaster avenues.
Don't get me wrong, I love and rely on SEPTA in my everyday life. I use it and walk 95% of my travel around the city, but I am not blind to the myriad of issues it suffers from either, and I'm simply pointing them out.
The payment schemes are definitely SEPTA's low point. At least as an occasional visitor I can get the independence pass (once I found out about it) and not worry too much.
SEPTA's integration of the ex-RDG and the ex-PRR regional rail is definitely a high point. Maybe the suburb the line is going to isn't the suburb you want to go to, but at least you don't have idle equipment taking up valuable center city real estate. Look at Chicago for a counter-example. Or New York (remember Hoboken, and Jamaica, and how unworkable Secaucus Junction is due to the too-narrow funnel onto Manhattan).
Yes it was short-sighted of Berks to not participate (imagine how different the City of Reading would be now, and the consequent tax base of that county, with half-hourly rail service 6 am to 8 pm and hourly for a few hours outside), but compared to the evisceration of New York Penn Station half a century ago at least that problem would be easier to undo with an effort of will.
Do you mean street cars in the suburbs, like the old Red Arrow line, that ran from Ardmore to 69th St ?
Routes 101/102 are still pretty heavily used but you're not talking about them, right?
Correct, I'm not talking about 101/102 or the NHSL. The Red Arrow line, the trolley/street car that ran along Route 3 from 69th Street to West Chester (which was replaced with the 104 bus), etc. I'd be willing to bet that the tracks are still there under the grass and concrete medians, but I'd have to do some research on whether or not they were actually pulled up or just paved over.
Septa should reconsider the spur off of the BSL up the Roosevelt blvd to the northeast as it was originally planned in the 60s but scrapped because of funding and politics.
This is one thing I find incredibly annoying about Regional Rail, and the constant stopping slows the ride down considerably. It doesn't really make sense to have stops 1/2-3/4 of a mile apart on a commuter rail line if you want to move people in and out quickly.
The same goes for the trolley lines and stopping at every damn block down Baltimore and Lancaster avenues.
Don't get me wrong, I love and rely on SEPTA in my everyday life. I use it and walk 95% of my travel around the city, but I am not blind to the myriad of issues it suffers from either, and I'm simply pointing them out.
Afaik, city buses stop just about every block too. You're young and still able-bodied so maybe you don't understand the point of doing it.
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Talk about annoying...
