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That is an EXCELLENT answer. By George, someone gets it!
And, the last paragraph is SO ON POINT. This identification based on color is a legacy of white paranoia that resulted in the creation of, and strict adherence to, the One Drop Rule.
Ponderosa and Rochelle - Thank you so much for your honest and open sharing on this thread. I have always wondered why it is so widely accepted for African Americans to publicly proclaim exclusion of white people (black only awards, television network etc.) and to even use Black Pride slogans, because I would NEVER utter or identify with a White Pride slogan, to me it is racist for any to do so. I know (now I believe I just thought I knew) if white people excluded black people in the same manner, black people would consider it racist. Now I wonder if black people would. I no longer think so. It sounds to me from what I have read on this thread that we are assuming black people would consider it racist, because we do. I now don't believe black people are trying to be racist when excluding white people. Ponderosa explained white people identify with things in people other than color whereas black people identfy mostly on color. If this is true of all or even most black people, it really explains a lot. I have had a light bulb turn on for me. I will no longer automatically jump to resentment when I see non-black people excluded by black people simply on the basis of color. But I still think a white person using a white pride slogan is being a racist, even if a black person using a black pride slogan isn't trying to be. Because I believe only a white racist would use a slogan focusing on color.
Rochelle ~ I'm really looking forward to reading the rest of this thread. I believe I will learn a lot about your culture and what is insulting to you etc. I have been guilty of making a comment about a friends hair (an African American friend), and probably have made other cultural mistakes it sounds like, but I honestly didn't realize I was being insulting. I didn't grow up around any people but white and I am very curious about other races and cultures and I appreciate and want to learn about our differences. Now I realize my appreciation of differences probably insulted people I count among my friends. They didn't even tell me I had insulted them. Thank you so very much for telling me the truth. A point and a big smile!
Ponderosa and Rochelle - Thank you so much for your honest and open sharing on this thread. I have always wondered why it is so widely accepted for African Americans to publicly proclaim exclusion of white people (black only awards, television network etc.) and to even use Black Pride slogans, because I would NEVER utter or identify with a White Pride slogan, to me it is racist for any to do so. I know (now I believe I just thought I knew) if white people excluded black people in the same manner, black people would consider it racist. Now I wonder if black people would. I no longer think so. It sounds to me from what I have read on this thread that we are assuming black people would consider it racist, because we do. I now don't believe black people are trying to be racist when excluding white people. Ponderosa explained white people identify with things in people other than color whereas black people identfy mostly on color. If this is true of all or even most black people, it really explains a lot. I have had a light bulb turn on for me. I will no longer automatically jump to resentment when I see non-black people excluded by black people simply on the basis of color. But I still think a white person using a white pride slogan is being a racist, even if a black person using a black pride slogan isn't trying to be. Because I believe only a white racist would use a slogan focusing on color.
Although I liked how it helped you change your point of view, I regret to disagree with what you stated above because it truly sounds like double-standards imho.
I am far from racist, had and still do have really close black friends but you know what they never acted like they to seek their kind or even made any comments on it. It seems even silly to talk about it but if someone is looking for their kind (nationality, color, ethnicity,religion) to find out certain 'their kind'-specific info, then of course that is very understandable and I believe that was the original intend of this thread.
I am hoping you misunderstood the part where black people focus on color, because if that is indeed the case, then to me, that sounds racist. or at least race-aware which could easily lead to negative racial encounters, actions, etc.
The ideal environment would be that no one sees any skin color. Kinda like hair or eye color, you may like a person with green eyes but does it make you treat someone with brown eye any less? Or should I be mean to people with red or blonde hair cause mine is chestnut brown? Same thing should go for skin color, simple as that.
Pardon me if I misunderstood any of your comments, after all I only had 5 hour sleep last night!
Very interesting guys. I feel a little nice today. Aw, hugs for everybody. You all are starting to know more about me than my best friends.
HUGS back to you Twiggy!! Thanks so much for sharing as you have. You are always so good at "hitting the nail on the head" in your posts and telling it as you see it and feel it. It's very much appreciated. Take care!!!
This kind of thread will just go on and on because "if you are not Black, you just do not understand it", I still dont get it, anyways ! Now, maybe Rochelle can answer this question. I have noticed like 80% of all the Blacks here in Minneapolis live in the most undesirable part of the city, The North Side. I went to college with a black person and we were discussing race in class, he basically said that he lived in North Side and he was fearing for the life of his daughter, bullets basically fly all over in this neighborhood. Then he said "It is bad there, but where else would I go?" I dont get that at all! There are so many different neighborhoods a Black, Blue or Green person could move to. Where do black people get this idea that they can only live in certain parts of the city! Very hard for me to understand it! If you had a daughter that was in danger, wouldnt you do whatever effort on your part to move out of such bad place?! Another black person I met, resident of the North Side told me that a murder took place like a block from her house, then she said "It is bad, but you know, it happens everywhere!", I did not say anything, but the suburb I live in, we had 0 murders this last year, the North Side had more than half of all the murders in the city of Minneapolis (about 50)..Please make me understand it! To move from the North Side, to any suburb, would probably cost you about 100 dollars more a month in rent! Why wouldnt people want the best for themselves and their kids (regardless of who lives in a neighborhood)Hard to understand it!!
Just a thought on why SOME black people may continue to live in bad neighborhoods...
Maybe the guy you knew heard something or had a bad experience in the good neighborhood that made him think that he would not be welcome.
Not saying that you or anyone in your neighborhood would not be welcoming, but depending on the generation the person is from could factor in their decision.
I remember about 15 years ago my family knew a family who moved to a predominetly White neighborhood and were very much unwelcomed. Several things happened to them but the last straw was the cross burned on their lawn. That was enough to make them leave and I'm going to bet that they probably wouldn't want to move into a predominitely white neighborhood again.
Very sad but I guess its human nature to try to protect yourself from potential danger.
Although I liked how it helped you change your point of view, I regret to disagree with what you stated above because it truly sounds like double-standards imho.
I am far from racist, had and still do have really close black friends but you know what they never acted like they to seek their kind or even made any comments on it. It seems even silly to talk about it but if someone is looking for their kind (nationality, color, ethnicity,religion) to find out certain 'their kind'-specific info, then of course that is very understandable and I believe that was the original intend of this thread.
I am hoping you misunderstood the part where black people focus on color, because if that is indeed the case, then to me, that sounds racist. or at least race-aware which could easily lead to negative racial encounters, actions, etc.
The ideal environment would be that no one sees any skin color. Kinda like hair or eye color, you may like a person with green eyes but does it make you treat someone with brown eye any less? Or should I be mean to people with red or blonde hair cause mine is chestnut brown? Same thing should go for skin color, simple as that.
Pardon me if I misunderstood any of your comments, after all I only had 5 hour sleep last night!
I probably wasn't being very clear. I'm not very well today and I had to re-read my own post several times, so I'm sure it was my writing and not your lack of sleep, or maybe a little of both.
It was Ponderosa's post that got me thinking that our cultural differences include what we consider as racial slights or not. She made a lot of sense to me and made me realize for the first time things I was slighted about were more than likely not meant that way. Then Rochelle's words convinced me. I choose to no longer feel slighted. I choose to believe these things are not meant to make anyone feel slighted or excluded. I'm afraid I have not been posting or reading posts long enough to be familiar with all the acronyms, what is "imho"? I don't consider it a double standard because I respect differences, including differences in culture.
Quote:
It seems even silly to talk about it but if someone is looking for their kind (nationality, color, ethnicity,religion) to find out certain 'their kind'-specific info, then of course that is very understandable and I believe that was the original intend of this thread.
Yes, I believe this is what Ponderosa was explaining, or at least what I thought I heard. What we consider "our kind" could be different between cultures. Also, ones curiosity about anothers culture could be perceived as expecting the person you are speaking to (of the other culture) to act as an ambassador of that culture and therefore be insulting. I wouldn't take questions about my culture this way, I would just answer and appreciate the persons interest, but that doesn't mean another person (of another culture) would feel the same way. Cultural differences are a lot more complicated than I imagined.
Quote:
I am hoping you misunderstood the part where black people focus on color, because if that is indeed the case, then to me, that sounds racist. or at least race-aware which could easily lead to negative racial encounters, actions, etc.
Isn't it possible you feel this way because of your culture? I feel black people can be race-aware but not be racist. This to me would be akin to culturally aware.
Quote:
The ideal environment would be that no one sees any skin color. Kinda like hair or eye color, you may like a person with green eyes but does it make you treat someone with brown eye any less? Or should I be mean to people with red or blonde hair cause mine is chestnut brown? Same thing should go for skin color, simple as that.
To me this is two different things. I used to believe if you weren't prejudice you shouldn't even notice skin color. As I grew older and met and became friends with people of color (other than white), I came to realize I would be doing them a disservice if I did not acknowledge and appreciate our race and cultural differences, which include color. I'm no longer color blind, I am color appreciative. Do you not see the hair and eye color? Yes, you see it and acknowledge it and it may be different than your hair or eye color, different doesn't mean it's worse or better than your own. Appreciate the differences, don't ignore them, or you miss out on really knowing someone. And finally, NO, I don't believe anyone should be mean to anyone because of differences. Hopefully this time I've explained myself better so you can see that is the bottom line of what I'm trying to say.
Thank you so much for pointing out my lack of clarity. The problem with writing instead of speaking, is it is so easy to not be clear and have your message and/or idea completely lost.
Hope you sleep better tonight!
Best Regards,
Annie
I remember about 15 years ago my family knew a family who moved to a predominetly White neighborhood and were very much unwelcomed. Several things happened to them but the last straw was the cross burned on their lawn.
If this happened in the last few decades??
If so, I am shocked and needless to say it truly is sad...
Ease up on that "things you can grease bearings with". That went a little too far.
Now, about the ground up almonds and fruit... who do you know who does that? Did they say it worked? That's new to me. Veeery interesting.
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Originally Posted by Ponderosa
I'm serious too, but in a sarcastic sort of way. (I'm still chucking at Rochelle's concern that if she goes to a sports bar with white people they will all want to talk about OJ and feel her hair). White people hair is just not the same I don't care what it LOOKs like. You gotta get a pinch to see what I am talking about. Black people go for days and weeks without washing their hair without getting itchy or oily. They put on mayo, oils, things you could grease bearings with, ground up almonds and various fruits, and wash it with the darndest of things. There are clouds of smoke around them in the morning as they burn their hair into shape for the day. Try that on a white head of hair! Even bi-racial kids hair is very different in texture from the black parent's hair. Black hair is truly a unique - and of course beautiful - thing.
Ease up on that "things you can grease bearings with". That went a little too far.
Now, about the ground up almonds and fruit... who do you know who does that? Did they say it worked? That's new to me. Veeery interesting.
My wife and companion of many years is a black woman. We have a bi-racial daughter together. Hair is big deal in our house. I swear I saw a tub of almond-based hair creme around here. I got my first clue on the hair thing when were dating. I saw a bottle of Mane and Tail Shampoo in the shower. She's no equestrian.
I got a kick out of your post about the sports bar. My wife has a lot of family in the Phoenix area. I've had my share of being the only white face at the church picnic so I can empathize. The tough part for us white guys is the handshake - what to do - when introduced to someone.
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Hugs back, and my thanks.
You all are starting to know more about me than my best friends. 
I'm sorry. I'll try to clarify....
