Mesa....... (This is sad) (home, tax, law)

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

I'm totally with you on this. I'm all for people coming to the US to work, for a better life, but the minute they break a law, especially kill someone up here, it's a problem. It's sad because there are a lot of hard working illegal immigrants who want to be a contributing member of this society (including paying taxes), but the people who come here and think it's a free for all, breaking all kinds of laws, ruin it for the honest immigrants. Immigrating here unofficially is obviously not legal, but there are so many roadblocks to get here legally because of all the people who cut in line and then make life miserable for the rest of us by stealing and killing. This is a hard issue for me because I don't want to be racist, but look at the news. They've started pointing out whether a crime was committed by an undocumented immigrant. The crimes (that are being reported most) are being committed by more undocumented hispanic people than anyone else, from what I've seen. Could be a media bias...but I've lived here a long time, and I've seen the crime rate increase.

Also, shouldn't immigration and border control be a homeland security issue? It's so easy to get into the US from Mexico, how do we know there aren't Al Queda cells swarming in??? Thanks for "protecting" us halfway around the world, Bush.

I say, beef up security at the border (that measly fence isn't going to cut it), open up more legal immigration (with background checks), and prosecute anyone who commits a crime here harshly (deport them faaaar away). Might be expensive, but I value my and my family's life and property.

Immigration and racial tension aside, when I first heard about this story, I was initially outraged, and felt sympathy for the poor guy who died, but then I thought, well at least the groceries were put to use by someone. Horrible, I know, but I'm a pragmatist.

Here is my solution to the illegal immigration situation.
Please bear (bare?) with me as I describe my idea before you jump to conclusions. Thanks.

First of all, allow anyone in the country who is here illegally immediate LEGAL status. No matter what country they are from. This would be a ONE TIME offering done within a specified amount of time.

To accomplish this, so that the illegals can move about freely, a card must be issued.

I would suggest that, anyone who wants amnesty be allowed to be granted it by following through with this action:

Each individual illegal immigrant must go to a selected location, be finger printed, DNA taken and have their mug shots taken (afterall, they are criminals...)

Then issue them a color coded license that is valid for 5 years. IF within those five years they are arrested for ANYTHING - minor or not, they are immediately deported and not allowed back into the country. If, like "most" illegals already here in the US, they stay out of trouble, they will be then be given full citizenship at the end of five years.

What this accomplishes, is this:

It allows the person to stay at whatever job they have now, AND they can begin to pay TAXES. They won't have to lie about status in the hospitals, they will actually have to be in the system like everyone else and pay up - or go bankrupt like other US citizens facing high hospitals bills. They'll have to have car insurance - just like everyone else.
If they are no longer allowed a free ride they may chose not to stay. But it will be their choice.
The employer (who is knowingly breaking the law) must pay the fees (workers compensation, etc) but shouldn't have to be forced to pay his employee any more than what he is already paying them. Because the illegal is free to go about his business without fear of being deportation he can then choose to either keep his job at his present pay or find another one.
This way prices will not raise substantially.

It's not a perfect solution, but it's a beginning. We all know the illegals are NOT going anywhere. That the government will NEVER enforce the new laws to begin with. Neither illegals NOR employers will be punished. So why not just make it easier on everyone?
But (and I use this term lightly) track the illegals for a few years and if they have proven themselves, then heck, let them stay. If they have caused a ruckus, send them home.

[Bummer]

Very interesting solution, LondonBarcelona . . .

However, it smells like a "reward" for blatantly disrespecting our Immigration Laws as well as our Border Patrol and other Law Enforcement Officers.

My solution . . . eliminate ALL incentives (employment, free health care, food stamps, etc) as well as strict enforcement of all of our laws and most illegals will "self-deport" as already proven with our latest law addressing the employers of illegals.

Also, immediately eliminate any and all Federal Funds plus tax exempt status to any City, Town and Church offering sanctuary to illegals.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Bummer

Very interesting solution, LondonBarcelona . . .

However, it smells like a "reward" for blatantly disrespecting our Immigration Laws as well as our Border Patrol and other Law Enforcement Officers.

My solution . . . eliminate ALL incentives (employment, free health care, food stamps, etc) as well as strict enforcement of all of our laws and most illegals will "self-deport" as already proven with our latest law addressing the employers of illegals.

Also, immediately eliminate any and all Federal Funds plus tax exempt status to any City, Town and Church offering sanctuary to illegals.

Unfortunately, that will never happen. It's obvious that the laws will never be enforced. That's why I suggested a solution to allow them a "one time" amnesty. That's an important point I forgot to make in my original post.
After this, beef up border control and enforce the laws. Which I think will be easier to do because things will go along at status quo and less time will be needed to control things that are just a waste of time now as it is. (Chasing after coyotes, drop houses)

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by Elmonellie

Poor people can and do take care of their kids. I grew up with lots of poor people and they provided fine lives for their kids. Nothing fancy, but still just fine. I also grew up with some poor people that expected welfare, SS disability, etc. to provide the funds because they couldn't quite keep a job or found the whole process of providing for the kids a little to difficult. Little sympathy from me for the latter.

Nice that you find time to play with your kid and go to school. How do you pay the bills?

I work a regular job part time and substitute teach when I can to make up the difference, but I eliminated the 3 hour commute I used to have and work very close to home, and I'm taking online classes through Rio Salado, which I'm lucky I can do. I still have to go to schools to do practicums (I'm going to school for teacher certification), but not having to drive so much freed up a lot of time.

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by Bummer

Very interesting solution, LondonBarcelona . . .

However, it smells like a "reward" for blatantly disrespecting our Immigration Laws as well as our Border Patrol and other Law Enforcement Officers.

My solution . . . eliminate ALL incentives (employment, free health care, food stamps, etc) as well as strict enforcement of all of our laws and most illegals will "self-deport" as already proven with our latest law addressing the employers of illegals.

Also, immediately eliminate any and all Federal Funds plus tax exempt status to any City, Town and Church offering sanctuary to illegals.

You forgot replacing the stars on the US flag with 50 svastikas...

Originally Posted by Artliquide

Except that he drove off. Hit and run is a deliberate crime.

Yes, that is where he F'ed up to begin with cause up until that point he could have gotten off with just involuntary man slaughter at the worst (I am guessing since I do not know the law).

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

You forgot replacing the stars on the US flag with 50 svastikas...


Yes, that is where he F'ed up to begin with cause up until that point he could have gotten off with just involuntary man slaughter at the worst (I am guessing since I do not know the law).

I think it just depends on whether he would have been found to be DUI or any other factors which would have caused him to swerve off the road.

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

I think it just depends on whether he would have been found to be DUI or any other factors which would have caused him to swerve off the road.

Again, I hate to speculate based on guessing, if only they gave more facts.

[Elmonellie]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

I work a regular job part time and substitute teach when I can to make up the difference, but I eliminated the 3 hour commute I used to have and work very close to home, and I'm taking online classes through Rio Salado, which I'm lucky I can do. I still have to go to schools to do practicums (I'm going to school for teacher certification), but not having to drive so much freed up a lot of time.

If you are going to school, and working to support you and your child...I think that is great. What a single parent should do. Your child will see that you are responsible and not looking for handouts. A great lesson to teach them.

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by Elmonellie

If you are going to school, and working to support you and your child...I think that is great. What a single parent should do. Your child will see that you are responsible and not looking for handouts. A great lesson to teach them.

Thank you. I have to admit that I get a lot of help from my parents who watch him 2 days every week, which I think is good for him anyway, with all the attention he gets. They also give us a lot of things for him, so that helps with the cost of furniture and things like that. I don't expect anything from anyone though, and if they didn't give me things, I would go to Goodwill to save money. It all comes down to choices. I chose to have a kid, so I'm responsible for that, no one else (not that my parents don't love seeing him so much). I do think that there are people who need genuine help, and they should get it wherever they can, but I agree that more people need to take responsibility for their choices. For those who could do more to get by, there need to be stricter regulations, I think. On the other hand, my son will know the value of money and work. Having a college degree, I know that I won't be struggling forever, but having been in this situation, I think that I will better be able to teach my son not to expect anything unless you work for it. There are so many kids whose parents give them any material thing they want, and these kids end up expecting it for the rest of their lives (what you learn when you are very young wires your brain forever), but the most valuable gift is time, not money, which is why I don't agree that poor people can't provide for their kids as well as rich people.

[CMDallas]

Just reading around, that is sad. The guy who ran him over probably freaked out and ran away... as long as it was an accident... but I find it disgusting that people would say 'hey look at that can of chef Boyardee!... you know its on the pavement... abandoned.. finder keepers, losers weepers' as someone across the pavement is just about dead.