It's official: This ain't no Bible Belt town! (Phoenix, Maricopa: transplants, elementary schools)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by caryberry

Perhaps this is more about the reading/education level of AZ citizens and not about reading & knowing a specific piece of literature. I would bet that AZ gets low marks for reading -period.

Or perhaps you are reaching in an attempt to contradict the findings. Someone doesn't have to excel in school or reading to understand the Bible. Most churches have Sunday School and other group activities where they explain the Bible in general terms. We are not referring to a college course in the Old Testament.

Originally Posted by tumamoc

Phoenix and Prescott the same metro area? Tucson and Sierra Vista? Never heard that before.

Reading comprehension? You missed the point. I was responding to one who falsely claimed the survey only referred to the city of Phoenix. The survey included major metropolitan areas and then went beyond that to include nearby cities. The point was the survey not only covered the metropolitan areas but went beyond that. So if someone tries to make the point the survey was inaccurate because it only included the city of Phoenix, you can show that it not only included the metropolitan area of Phoenix but AlSO nearby cities like Prescott. That's the reason it was listed like that in the results. [mod cut-- rude]

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

A lot of people I have run into in my travels think Phoenix is like Dallas when it comes to religious influence in the community. They also think we are a bunch of racists because of the bad press on the immigration issue. Like you say we know otherwise, but the perception is there. So I think it is important to have a credible source like this survey set the record straight on the religious aspect. As for the racism, given the antics at the Capitol, we will have a hard time convincing anyone that Phoenix is probably the most racially tolerant city in America - even though it is true.

I agree with you but we don't even need this study to validate that Phoenix is not a Bible Belt city for several reasons.

1. The majority of residents in the Phoenix metropolitan area are Roman Catholic not Protestant which makes up the majority of Evangelicals.

2. No Blue Laws here that prevent the purchase and serving of alcohol on Sundays. You can purchase hard liquor in grocery stores.

3. Marijuana was legalized for medicinal purpose by the state. No Bible Belt state has legalized marijuana for medicinal or recreational use.

4. Casinos are located all over the city and have been in existance for nearly 20 years. That's important because some conservative areas RECENTLY approved of casinos but Arizona approved of casinos at a time when casinos were still widely banned across the country.

5. Tempe residents voted for an openly gay mayor. The state voted for a suspected gay governor in Napolitano.

Phoenix and Arizona is conservative about taxes, guns and immigration but that doesn't equate us to being a Bible Belt state and unfortunately many uneducated people attempt to make that leap but the facts speak otherwise.

[Howard Roark]

BA Math 1985, MSCS 1990. I read a lot of books when I was younger. I read just some of the Bible, enough to where I could not stand it. Several times. And it was not much. And so my education level is not so good merely because I refuse to read it all?

Originally Posted by caryberry

Perhaps this is more about the reading/education level of AZ citizens and not about reading & knowing a specific piece of literature. I would bet that AZ gets low marks for reading -period.

[caryberry]

Sorry if I implied that education/knowledge made one a bible reader or not.

When I was in elementary school - you learned the major stories of the bible and didn't pass the 3rd grade until you could recite Psalm 23 from memory...but that was the 1960's in the segregated, cross-burning South.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by caryberry

Sorry if I implied that education/knowledge made one a bible reader or not.

When I was in elementary school - you learned the major stories of the bible and didn't pass the 3rd grade until you could recite Psalm 23 from memory...but that was the 1960's in the segregated, cross-burning South.

Um, the reason they don't do that here is because it would be ILLEGAL here and in any other public in the country! How do you not know that? I think you just proved our point for us. You grew up in the Bible Belt and that type of activity was normal in the schools there.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by observer53

I don't think that "knowledge of the Bible" equals an "oppressive culture of religiosity". That said, we did not need this survey to tell us that metro Phoenix is not a "Bible belt" area. Conservative doesn't automatically equal religious, and many of the people here who self-identify as "conservative" don't attend church regularly. The other thing to consider is that there are a LARGE number of people in this country, including the Phoenix area, who do attend church on a regular or semi regular basis, but don't "study" the Bible to any significant degree.

Studying the Bible and interpreting it from a certain perspective are two separate issues. You can't assume that people have not studied the Bible because they don't believe in the same literal translation of the Bible held by Evangelicals. And just because one doesn't memorize passages, doesn't mean they didn't every study the Bible or read it. Reading and memorizing are very different processes. You could have read the Bible and still scored low in this study based on your Biblical interpretation and lifestyle. There is a false notion that Christians living outside the Bible Belt don't attend church nor have they studied the Bible. They have studied the Bible, they just don't believe in the same philosophical and lifestyle practices associated with Evangelicals many of whom live in the Southern United States "the Bible Belt". The "researchers" in this study held a conservative evangelical view and then judged cities based on those views. So this study doesn't show that people are not well educated about the Bible, it merely shows they don't hold the same views and practices held by Evangelicals.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Studying the Bible and interpreting it from a certain perspective are two separate issues. You can't assume that people have not studied the Bible because they don't believe in the same literal translation of the Bible held by Evangelicals. And just because one doesn't memorize passages, doesn't mean they didn't every study the Bible or read it. Reading and memorizing are very different processes. You could have read the Bible and still scored low in this study based on your Biblical interpretation and lifestyle. There is a false notion that Christians living outside the Bible Belt don't attend church nor have they studied the Bible. They have studied the Bible, they just don't believe in the same philosophical and lifestyle practices associated with Evangelicals many of whom live in the Southern United States "the Bible Belt". The "researchers" in this study held a conservative evangelical view and then judged cities based on those views. So this study doesn't show that people are not well educated about the Bible, it merely shows they don't hold the same views and practices held by Evangelicals.

Let's not split hairs about what is meant, or what I meant, by "study". And, I wasn't making any comment whatsoever about "literal translation" or anything else. I don't hold any notion that Christians outside the Bible Belt don't attend church or don't read the Bible. There likely are people who think that, but don't quote my post and then try to assume what I really meant or imply that I believe something I don't.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

The "researchers" in this study held a conservative evangelical view and then judged cities based on those views. So this study doesn't show that people are not well educated about the Bible, it merely shows they don't hold the same views and practices held by Evangelicals.

Good point. Otherwise I would not understand how Salt Lake City comes out near the end of the ranking. They study the bible quite a lot there, but probably do not agree with the Evangelicals' pov. I also agree with the other poster further up that Phoenix has a lot of Catholics. All out neighbors who go to church are Catholic and they are awesome if you ask me. Overall, there are definitively less than 50% who go to church regularly.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by caryberry

Sorry if I implied that education/knowledge made one a bible reader or not.

When I was in elementary school - you learned the major stories of the bible and didn't pass the 3rd grade until you could recite Psalm 23 from memory...but that was the 1960's in the segregated, cross-burning South.

Crazy story, man. As a more recent immigrant from Europe, this is unbelievable for me. Fortunately, this is very different today across the US. I don't see this in Phoenix at all. Maybe there are a few extremists who home-school their kids in a purely Evangelical way (including all the bigotry etc.), but they are a small minority.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by observer53

Let's not split hairs about what is meant, or what I meant, by "study". And, I wasn't making any comment whatsoever about "literal translation" or anything else. I don't hold any notion that Christians outside the Bible Belt don't attend church or don't read the Bible. There likely are people who think that, but don't quote my post and then try to assume what I really meant or imply that I believe something I don't.

Sorry mod but if you are going to post then you need to take responsibility for what you write and accept that people will form impressions on what you wrote just like any other member. And people will form different impressions based on what they read. If someone misunderstands your intent, it's your job to clarify it. And you did imply that people may not have scored well in this study because they may attend church but not read the Bible and that's not necessarily accurate. This study contained a certain perspective so if one scored poorly, it doesn't mean they haven't read or studied the Bible. It's not about splitting hairs but it's an important distinction that needs to be made. There are a lot of people who attend church and read the Bible but they may not memorize and recite passages, it doesn't mean they haven't studied the Bible.