ASU economists say we'll grow when our leaders stop looking stupid"

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I don't know on the others but the answer to that one is yes. The in-state schools make several recruiting trips. Our HS has a required course in college and career planning where the kids are taught all sorts of things like how to research and select colleges, how to manage credit, and other life skills. That class had several visits from colleges in AZ and from out of state as well. Colleges also set up tents at the senior fair and events like that. I don't know if all the high schools get the attention ours does. We send about 90% on to some form of post-secondary education.

And let's be honest here. No state has ALL the schools having the same curriculum and opportunities. Every single state in this country has better schools for wealthy students as a rule.

Agreed.

It sounds like your district was pretty well funded at the student level at the expense of pushing out building maintenance. As you know, even harder decisions are on the horizon when you spend $7500 per pupil and don't fund the building maintenance. It's not enough. If I am a betting man, quality education was a high priority for you.

What I am learning here is the majority of people who search for a low cost of living are cheap in all categories. They will even vote to NO to fund their own kids education. That's irrational to me. I've been to my unfairshare of school board meetings and have had many detail conversations with board members.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Agreed.

It sounds like your district was pretty well funded at the student level at the expense of pushing out building maintenance. As you know, even harder decisions are on the horizon when you spend $7500 per pupil. It's not enough. If I am a betting man, quality education was a high priority for you.

What I am learning here is people who search for a low cost of living are cheap in all categories.

The overrides passed here - well some of them. Overrides are the local funding component (not state funds) that schools depend on to cover the funding shortfall. They are taxes on a district basis that cover capital expenses and maintenance usually. Also, our schools are very new so maintenance costs are less. That reminds of something that I read once. It was that in AZ in general, school maintenance is much lower than in most places because of the newer physical plant and the more benign weather effects. That in turn means that state funding is automatically less here than in the rust belt, for example.

And yes, schools here need more money. This is not "throwing money at the problem". It simply recognizes that schools that were barely or not adequately funded 10 years ago have sustained significant budget cuts since the recession. As the recovery progresses, it is imperative that the funding be at least raised to the meager level it once was. We need to tenaciously defend 49th place! Seriously, we are not last in per capita income, last in cost of living, and we should not be last in educational expenditures either.

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I think we are talking about some of the same things. More money won't help unless you have motivated students. Hence, the statistical outliers will skew the results. If I can show that in every district that spends >$20K per student has worse results than thousands of hand picked district that spends $8000-$10,000 per student, are you going to tell me that this proves spending LESS gets you better results? Of course not!

Now let's drop out the outliers. Let's look at two private schools. One that spends $4000 per student and the other that spends $20K. I can promise you that the school that spends $20K is going to have some incredible results. I also recognize the are the laws of diminishing returns. But it's undeniable that the best privates in AZ are spending a bundle and getting some incredible results.

We also agree that their is waste. As I said before, it happens in every single business and enterprise where you spend other peoples money. You told us that you are disappointed with your daughters AZ schools teaching performance. Yet you are voting no to the referendums simply because you can find waste. You will continue to be disappointed while your daughter gets short changed. My viewpoint is I want a frugal district but I'm not going to demand perfection. I'm willing to waste $500 a student so that I get a product I am happy with. Your viewpoint seems to be the AZ way and is the reason why I'd pass on sending my kids to these underfunded schools.

Actually, I've not said that at all. I voted yes on ALL three of the override and bond measures for MY school district that recently passed and voted yes the previous cycle. I also contribute the MAXIMUM allowed under the state education tax credit each year. I also attend school board meetings. I wonder how many of these people that scream we need more money actually do these things?

I'm all about residents funding their own districts and their schools if they want more programs and better facilities. I can and do go to the school board meetings and fight to make sure this money is spent properly. What I'm against is a statewide policy of just dumping more money into districts that I have no say or control over.

And again, the reason I'm disappointed with my daughters AZ school teaching performance isn't a monetary issue. It's an issue of poor teachers that should be fired but are allowed to continue teaching as there is no performance standards tied to them keeping their jobs. They suck this year and they will suck again next year.

[sandy6879]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Are all the AZ high schools teaching 2nd quarter Calc? I bet they aren't. Hence, it's a money problem.

Do the AZ public schools have a focus on National History day? Do the colleges actively recruit inside of the high schools to extract the top students to stay instate? There are all kids of opportunities in well funded districts. You see, you cannot do it all on $7500. That's my point.

Just as an FYI - the instate schools do try to recruit the top students to stay in-state. My daughter received full tuition scholarships to the 2 state schools she applied to (not room/board, just tuition paid in full for 4 years) based on a combination of her grades, class rank, and ACT scores. Just wanted to post that point. Going back to continue to read the rest of the thread