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Hmmm...you guys are confusing me. If the kids are so much better educated today and "middle school students are learning what high school students learned in the past" then what the heck is the problem? They are so much better educated today so we need to spend more money?
Simple answer. Overall, the culture has deteriorated so there is a higher percentage of kids that are coasting. For those who care and are striving to do their best, the competition is more intense than ever. To my eyes, it's incredibly obvious. You will have a group of kids in the same school that are barely able to do basic math and in 3 class rooms over there are kids taking 2nd quarter Calc. It's as simple as that. There are equally caring and compassionate teachers spending the same amount of money on each kid.
The kids you want to attract to AZ are those families that care. But your concern is someone is going to take your job. I'm certainly not concerned. Bring in the educated parents (and their kids who want to learn) and you will have higher test scores. But the problem is you are going to bypass families who think $7500 per child budgets lacks scholastic opportunities.
Simple answer. Overall, the culture has deteriorated so there is a higher percentage of kids that are coasting. For those who care and are striving to do their best, the competition is more intense than ever. To my eyes, it's incredibly obvious. You will have a group of kids in the same school that are barely able to do basic math and in 3 class rooms over there are kids taking 2nd quarter Calc. It's as simple as that. There are equally caring and compassionate teachers spending the same amount of money on each kid.
The kids you want to attract to AZ are those families that care. But your concern is someone is going to take your job. I'm certainly not concerned. Bring in the educated parents (and their kids who want to learn) and you will have higher test scores. But the problem is you are going to bypass families who think $7500 per child budgets lacks scholastic opportunities.
Your "simple answer" confused me even more...so is the problem really that we don't spend enough money if kids side by side are able to excel at "2nd quarter Calc." while others are "coasting" and can't do basic math? That's not a money problem.
I think you're making my point for me. Our problem isn't a spend more money problem, it's the problems I've been discussing in this thread all along.
ETA: or are you agreeing that it isn't a money problem?
Why is it that most people look for 1 answer to complex issues?
Good point and I agree there are many causes of our complex educational problems and I've discussed several of them. Spending more money is the "1" reason that can be crossed of the list of "answers" to the problem we have.
Having read through the first few pages of this post, being a Boston native living in suburban Houston ( The Woodlands. ) here is my personally take on what Texas is REALLY like.
Public education ? Certainly not tops in the nation. Schools are seperated by neighborhoods or the area you live in. Some are wealthy, some are not. The student to teacher ratio is insane. Our local high school The Woodlands High School does well because many of the parents in this area are educated themselves, hold a degree, and support the kids in academice and extracurricular activities. At the same time our campus holds a WHOOPING 4,108 students. Eighth largest in the state. The largest high school Plano East in suburban dallas tops over 6,000+ .
Allen ISD ( Independent School District ) in suburban Dallas just forked over $60 MILLION for a 18,000 seat football stadium for their recent 16-0 state champs. Here in the Houston area we've added the Berry Center-mainly for football games, our own in The Woodlands area Woodforest Stadium. Yet, all the mental midgets are behind chief mental midget Rick Perry or had no problem when he cut all the teachers jobs down here. Football IS king here. Sometimes I think football does come over education. During the playoffs we usually play the high school games in Cowboys stadium, the Texans stadium, or whichever university. Mainly because after the 2nd round of the 6 game playoffs they can't shoehorn the 30,40 and yes 50,000+ into the high school venues.
Why does Texas do well ? In Dallas you have a world class airport at DFW with American based there. Employers and their workers can move their products or workers almost anywhere in the world. Same here in Houston. IAH is UA's largest hub, not Chicago. Big oil drives the high fares out of Houston. At UA we can get you nearly anywhere in the world non-stop from Houston. Frankfurt, Munich, London (4 times a day) Tokyo (twice a day ), Lagos, Africa for really big oil, Rio de Janeiro, Edmonton, Calgary, Sao Paolo, Caracas, Bogota, just about everywhere in Mexico, Central America. One-stop flights to every major business center in the country and onwards to anywhere in the world. Chicago, Denver, LA, NYC (EWR ). Then there is the port of Houston and sheer amount of volume that goes through here.
Logistics. Transportation. That coupled with Big Oil IMO is why the economy here is a powerhouse. Plus no state taxes.
Does anyone know the median price of a house in Boston ??? It's crazy.
Go to har.com and look what 400k will get you in The Woodlands, Sugarland, Cinco Ranch, Kingwood.Cost of living was impressive to me. I wound up here because we were headquarted here when I took the job.
Listen....Texas is nice, doing great, but Perry and some of these other nuts are truly crazy. The schools are NOT that good. In Dallas, Austin and Houston I'd put my kids a suburban district. Houston ISD is LOSING students.
As for as schools ??? I'd put my kids in Rice University or UT. That or send them back home to Massachusetts or out in California where my wife is from.
Sorry for the rant. Wound up here after a visit to Phoenix over this past weekend. Was wondering what some of the nicer areas of Phoenix were in case I have to relocate in a year. Everyone seemed WAAAAAY more sane than a lot of Texans here. Nice people....but I avoid certain subjects like the plague with people here. Only thing is that I feel it's more in your face here.
Texas is nice, but we certainly have our own issues.
Your "simple answer" confused me even more...so is the problem really that we don't spend enough money if kids side by side are able to excel at "2nd quarter Calc." while others are "coasting" and can't do basic math? That's not a money problem.
I think you're making my point for me. Our problem isn't a spend more money problem, it's the problems I've been discussing in this thread all along.
ETA: or are you agreeing that it isn't a money problem?
Are all the AZ high schools teaching 2nd quarter Calc? I bet they aren't. Hence, it's a money problem.
Do the AZ public schools have a focus on National History day? Do the colleges actively recruit inside of the high schools to extract the top students to stay instate? There are all kids of opportunities in well funded districts. You see, you cannot do it all on $7500. That's my point.
Are all the AZ high schools teaching 2nd quarter Calc? I bet they aren't. Hence, it's a money problem.
Do the AZ public schools have a focus on National History day? Do the colleges actively recruit inside of the high schools to extract the top students to stay instate? There are all kids of opportunities in well funded districts. You see, you cannot do it all on $7500. That's my point.
There are programs available for taking classes at local community colleges that are above the level of what is offered at the high school.
Let's tighten our belts and cut out some of the waste and see what we can do instead of throwing good money after bad. We have places spending three times what we're spending with much worse results. This problem will take more than money to fix and as long as people think "I don't have to actually do anything other than complain we don't spend enough money on education" our problem will never get better. GO TO A BOARD MEETING AND INSIST YOUR DISTRICTS SPEND THE MONEY THEY DO HAVE ON EDUCATION AND NOT ALL THE OTHER BS IT IS BEING WASTED ON. That's a place to start and something we can all do right now.
Why is it that most people look for 1 answer to complex issues?
We are still waiting for some of your suggestions.
The single best way to raise peoples brain power is by motivating them. How to do that is a complex answer. For our kids, I tied their self esteem to their grades. That's the readers digest version but it took a lot of positive reinforcement as well as helping them to gain the expertise to be ahead of the curve. I think high self esteem is the key to success.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 05-19-2014 at 07:19 AM..
Are all the AZ high schools teaching 2nd quarter Calc? I bet they aren't. Hence, it's a money problem.
Do the AZ public schools have a focus on National History day? Do the colleges actively recruit inside of the high schools to extract the top students to stay instate? There are all kids of opportunities in well funded districts. You see, you cannot do it all on $7500. That's my point.
I don't know on the others but the answer to that one is yes. The in-state schools make several recruiting trips. Our HS has a required course in college and career planning where the kids are taught all sorts of things like how to research and select colleges, how to manage credit, and other life skills. That class had several visits from colleges in AZ and from out of state as well. Colleges also set up tents at the senior fair and events like that. It's nothing compared to their athletic recruiting of course, but I was kind of surprised to see the recruiting efforts made by the universities. GCU, especially, is aggressive. I don't know if all the high schools get the attention ours does. We send about 90% on to some form of post-secondary education.
And let's be honest here. No state has ALL the schools having the same curriculum and opportunities. Every single state in this country has better schools for wealthy students as a rule.
Last edited by Ponderosa; 05-19-2014 at 07:08 AM..
There are programs available for taking classes at local community colleges that are above the level of what is offered at the high school.
Let's tighten our belts and cut out some of the waste and see what we can do instead of throwing good money after bad. We have places spending three times what we're spending with much worse results. This problem will take more than money to fix and as long as people think "I don't have to actually do anything other than complain we don't spend enough money on education" our problem will never get better. GO TO A BOARD MEETING AND INSIST YOUR DISTRICTS SPEND THE MONEY THEY DO HAVE ON EDUCATION AND NOT ALL THE OTHER BS IT IS BEING WASTED ON. That's a place to start and something we can all do right now.
I think we are talking about some of the same things. More money won't help unless you have motivated students. Hence, the statistical outliers will skew the results. If I can show that in every district that spends >$20K per student has worse results than thousands of hand picked district that spends $8000-$10,000 per student, are you going to tell me that this proves spending LESS gets you better results? Of course not!
Now let's drop out the outliers. Let's look at two private schools. One that spends $4000 per student and the other that spends $20K. I can promise you that the school that spends $20K is going to have some incredible results. I also recognize the are the laws of diminishing returns. But it's undeniable that the best privates in AZ are spending a bundle and getting some incredible results.
We also agree that their is waste. As I said before, it happens in every single business and enterprise where you spend other peoples money. You told us that you are disappointed with your daughters AZ schools teaching performance. Yet you are voting no to the referendums simply because you can find waste. You will continue to be disappointed while your daughter gets short changed. My viewpoint is I want a frugal district but I'm not going to demand perfection. I'm willing to waste $500 a student so that I get a product I am happy with. Your viewpoint seems to be the AZ way and is the reason why I'd pass on sending my kids to these underfunded schools.
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