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That's not the way to fix Arizona's schools or health care.
Weren't these the AZ Legislature rally points against ObamaCare? Now we want to introduce these panels to stop "wasteful spending" on "undeserving lives" and "undeserving kids"? No wonder this hypocrisy makes people think twice before coming to Arizona. - That is if you are more liberal than Cliven Bundy.
I've lived in several states that Californians thought were great places to move and each of those states are worse off today then they were before the influx of Californians occurred. I for one am glad if Arizona isn't a magnet for Californians who are fleeing the mess they have created there.
I have a family member that works for a valley school district and I'm very involved in the goings on in the school district. The problems in the district are self created by liberal policies that try and cater to minorities and they spend their resources on programs that don't enhance the education kids receive but make things easier for the low income minorities in the district.
There's two issues with this:
a) Our current economic model in AZ is based on RE and net-migration from other states. If you destroy AZs image for the average American you decimate your customer base. There are only as many Cliven Bundys out there that are attracted by our legislature's policy. We can say we only want the 1% most conservative and bigoted people to move here to AZ and exclude all others but that will kill our current, largely RE-based economic basis. That is Mike Orr's message.
b) If you want to change our economic model towards more skilled industries and attract well-educated people instead, good luck with your attitude towards education and human-kindness. We are always looking for IT talent, for example and telling a candidate that Apple products and programs for special ed for their children are "wasteful spending" is not going to attract anyone. So we're blocked here too.
I guess that will leave us we no economic model at all. Does not sound like a solid plan for AZ's future for me.
a) Our current economic model in AZ is based on RE and net-migration from other states. If you destroy AZs image for the average American you decimate your customer base. There are only as many Cliven Bundys out there that are attracted by our legislature's policy. We can say we only want the 1% most conservative and bigoted people to move here to AZ and exclude all others but that will kill our current, largely RE-based economic basis. That is Mike Orr's message.
b) If you want to change our economic model towards more skilled industries and attract well-educated people instead, good luck with your attitude towards education and human-kindness. We are always looking for IT talent, for example and telling a candidate that Apple products and programs for special ed for their children are "wasteful spending" is not going to attract anyone. So we're blocked here too.
I guess that will leave us we no economic model at all. Does not sound like a solid plan for AZ's future for me.
I'm all in favor of helping out people in need. That doesn't mean it's an open checkbook. I assume you think it is rational to spend whatever it takes. Even if that means the overwhelming majority of the kids get shorted because you blew all your money. There is a limit. Both in healthcare and in education.
15 years ago, Minnesota's "compassion" brought in all kinds of misfits from IL and Gary Indiana. They LOVED our generosity. That's when MPLS was called the murder capital of the world. MN is the 4th highest taxed state. There is a happy medium.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 05-12-2014 at 03:46 PM..
I got to thinking about plumbers. When they come to my house to do a job, I can watch them and see what they are doing. Same with electricians who come to my house. To some extent, the same with auto mechanics who work on my car. My dentist. My doctor. My lawyer. My barber. My gardener. The guy who stocks grocery shelves. The produce man at my local Kroger store. The salesman at Best Buy. Etc.
But it's very easy to be a relative "know nothing" about education, to have no idea what a superintendent does, or an assistant superintendent, or any other administrative person...but to be perfectly willing to judge -- with no knowledge base at all -- about whether their job is valuable or not.
And it's very easy to make positive judgements about "your" child's teacher(s), when in reality they may be loved, but may not be a good teacher at all.
Education is not easy, because working with unique minds and unique personalities is not a formula. And while "local control" of education seems to be some sort of mantra in the United States, I'm not at all sure that I want plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, dentists, doctors, lawyers, barbers, gardeners, grocery store workers, salesmen, and the unemployed deciding what works in education.
And add to it, that there's not one specific way to be effective in education - what works for one child, may not work for another. I'm all about holding teachers accountable, but not through test scores since not all students test well on paper. Although, I agree that there should be some sort of national standard we aim for each child to achieve at a certain benchmark. I'm licensed to teach. I student taught and have my master's in education. However, it's the hardest job in the world. There is no one way to do it correctly - good teachers develop their skills over time. However, here especially, good teachers don't get paid what they should and leave for greener pastures where they will be paid better. I can't say I blame them - if you do an amazing job in your field, you should be compensated accordingly. We lose longevity of teachers because of this, and good teachers go into becoming superintendents because that's the only way they can make a decent wage here.
We have got to stop looking at schools as "glorified baby-sitters" as someone put it. Yes they get time off. It's part of the deal with that job position. However, having the limited experience I have, I fully understand WHY they get that time off. They would burn out much faster if they didn't. In my past career, I had 8 weeks of paid vacation - in a corporate management position. Why? Because people in that field also get burned out. I ask anyone who thinks that job is easy, or shouldn't be paid well, to go in and be a substitute teacher for a week or two, administering lesson plans that YOU write, differentiating instruction so that the majority of your students learn, and then go home and continue to work well past the time you leave your job. And then let me know if you think people in education are paid "too much."
Common sense dictates that we need to change what we are doing - education is a huge part of that. I don't believe charter schools are the answer. We need to offer a GOOD education to every student. Charter schools and private schools have the ability to accept who they want to accept. Of course their test scores will be better - they are picking the cream of the crop to attend their schools. Our public system must do better if we want our society as a whole to improve over the generations.
Education is not easy, because working with unique minds and unique personalities is not a formula. And while "local control" of education seems to be some sort of mantra in the United States, I'm not at all sure that I want plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, dentists, doctors, lawyers, barbers, gardeners, grocery store workers, salesmen, and the unemployed deciding what works in education.
It seems as though you have the answers. Please do share. Because so far, your 20 posts only ask questions.
And add to it, that there's not one specific way to be effective in education - what works for one child, may not work for another. I'm all about holding teachers accountable, but not through test scores since not all students test well on paper. Although, I agree that there should be some sort of national standard we aim for each child to achieve at a certain benchmark. I'm licensed to teach. I student taught and have my master's in education. However, it's the hardest job in the world. There is no one way to do it correctly - good teachers develop their skills over time. However, here especially, good teachers don't get paid what they should and leave for greener pastures where they will be paid better. I can't say I blame them - if you do an amazing job in your field, you should be compensated accordingly. We lose longevity of teachers because of this, and good teachers go into becoming superintendents because that's the only way they can make a decent wage here.
We have got to stop looking at schools as "glorified baby-sitters" as someone put it. Yes they get time off. It's part of the deal with that job position. However, having the limited experience I have, I fully understand WHY they get that time off. They would burn out much faster if they didn't. In my past career, I had 8 weeks of paid vacation - in a corporate management position. Why? Because people in that field also get burned out. I ask anyone who thinks that job is easy, or shouldn't be paid well, to go in and be a substitute teacher for a week or two, administering lesson plans that YOU write, differentiating instruction so that the majority of your students learn, and then go home and continue to work well past the time you leave your job. And then let me know if you think people in education are paid "too much."
Common sense dictates that we need to change what we are doing - education is a huge part of that. I don't believe charter schools are the answer. We need to offer a GOOD education to every student. Charter schools and private schools have the ability to accept who they want to accept. Of course their test scores will be better - they are picking the cream of the crop to attend their schools. Our public system must do better if we want our society as a whole to improve over the generations.
You make some very good points.
I think Arizonans (and Coloradans) need to learn that there are 2 types of teachers out there. One type is a spouse whose job is secondary to their partners. So they will follow their partner to wherever his or her job takes them. And I would guess that an awfully lot of Arizona's teachers are that type. And that's fine. And then there are people that were more along my experience where I looked for the best position I could find, whether it was in NYS, Florida, Maryland, Virginia, or a few other states. And once I ended up in the DC area, although I started in the first school system that had an opening, as soon as possible I moved to the best school system in the region...not just in terms of salary and benefits, but equally due to the enthusiasm of the teachers in the system.
A really good teacher has to have a big bag of tricks -- different teaching techniques -- and when one is working, they need to pull another technique out of their bag. And often -- especially since mainstreaming -- there has to be a pretty big variety of techniques available to that teacher to do the job for every type of student in the class.
The whole time-off thing is quite misunderstood by the public. A good teacher doesn't put in an 8 hour work day to begin with. As a principal I sort of kept track of my work week, and it averaged out to 52 hours, and there was nothing extra in the check for that time beyond 40 hours. They also don't realize that some of those summer vacations (or through night school) are taken up by additional course work to remain certified.
The burnout factor is huge. We had an English teacher -- best I ever saw. When her students would turn in a writing assignment, each one would get back an audio tape critiquing the work. Imagine the time spent doing that. I told her over and over, "Karen, you've got to do less of that, or you'll burn yourself out." But she kept it up...until she quit working as a teacher...due to stress. She burned out. Became a high paid tutor and worked as much as she wanted. A great loss.
I will be in favor of charter schools when they have to take every student that comes along...and keep every student that comes along.
I'm all in favor of helping out people in need. That doesn't mean it's an open checkbook. I assume you think it is rational to spend whatever it takes. Even if that means the overwhelming majority of the kids get shorted because you blew all your money. There is a limit. Both in healthcare and in education.
15 years ago, Minnesota's "compassion" brought in all kinds of misfits from IL and Gary Indiana. They LOVED our generosity. That's when MPLS was called the murder capital of the world. MN is the 4th highest taxed state. There is a happy medium.
And yet MN is still a hub for educated and talented people. A lot more than Arizona...
But it's very easy to be a relative "know nothing" about education, to have no idea what a superintendent does, or an assistant superintendent, or any other administrative person...but to be perfectly willing to judge -- with no knowledge base at all -- about whether their job is valuable or not.
It seems as though you have the answers. Please do share. Because so far, your 20 posts only ask questions.
That's my intent -- to get people to stop listening to media-mania, and actually start thinking about education. A good teacher just doesn't tell students what to learn.
If the people of Arizona want a quality education program, they need to look around the country to where there are successful programs...and there are many. They need to find out how to improve school programs, without falling back on knee-jerk political babble. They need to forget that they think they are experts because they went to school (because even the biggest moron in the country also went to school). It's possible to have a high quality educational program, without paying top dollar for it (although you probably won't pay bargain-basement costs for it, either).
You know, one day my neighbor was ranting and raving about Benghazi. And after she finally ran down I asked her, "Where is Benghazi?" She didn't know what country it was in. I asked her to spell it. She couldn't. I asked her to point it out on a map. According to her, Benghazi is somewhere in India.
Another day, this same neighbor was ranting and raving about Common Core. I asked her to name one thing that was in Common Core. Just one. Of course, she couldn't. It was all media-babble on her part.
Arizonans need to get beyond media/political babble on a number of topics it they want to improve their state. They need to stop worrying about whether someone moving to Arizona is from California or Illinois or Minnesota, or Colorado, or Virginia, or wherever. Wherever they are from they can teach people something...for good or for ill, but either way, you learn...what to do or what not to do.
I know well a superintendent from (well, let's say) the Tucson "area"...past or present doesn't matter. I told him at one point before retirement that I was considering a job in Arizona. He counseled me not to even think of it. A dead end, as he put it. But I said he was (or had been) in Arizona, and he replied, "Only because that's where my wife's mother and father and family live."
So I would suggest that you ought to be asking more questions. You learn more by asking questions than you do by giving answers.
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