ASU economists say we'll grow when our leaders stop looking stupid" (Phoenix: low income, technology jobs)

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by jdahunt

More than Arizonan's have moved to Illinois...that is for sure....and it will continue.

Not my fault you misread facts.....so was I right or was I right about Illinois having a net negative migration....of course I was right.

You still haven't answered my question.

[cacto]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Interesting you should talk about news sources that tell people what they want to hear.....kind of sounds like those people with those bumper stickers in other states got a one way dose of that from their own "side" of what they want to hear also, yes? And you can bet they know people in AZ, have visited here several times to form such a strong opinion to want to stick a piece of paper on their car and drive around with their views on it.

And isn't that the definition of prejudice, paint an entire group, in this case a state, with a broad brush believing everyone has a same belief? Talk about ignorance to the nth degree.

I agree with most of your points. I didn't agree with those stickers. The level of liberal brainwashing in New England is pretty extreme. I'm more used to the extreme conservative brainwashing in Arizona.

And most importantly....why do you feel it important to comment on something silly like a bumper sticker? If I commented on all the bumper stickers I've seen in every state I've lived/visited(that's most of them) that had heated comments on them about this/that/the other thing, I'd be a billionaire by now.

It was the amount of them that struck me. I saw them all over the city. That I kept seeing anti-Arizona stickers all over one of our most major cities about as far away from Arizona as you can get was a little surprising. Right or wrong, the bad press about Arizona is a national phenomenon and is hurting our economy.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by cacto

It was the amount of them that struck me. I saw them all over the city. That I kept seeing anti-Arizona stickers all over one of our most major cities about as far away from Arizona as you can get was a little surprising. Right or wrong, the bad press about Arizona is a national phenomenon and is hurting our economy.

Perhaps MA, especially the Boston area based on your bumper sticker observations, should worry more about issues that impact their own economy/why young people are leaving their own state vs bumper sticker slogans aimed at another state?

The <em>real</em> reasons young people leave Massachusetts - Global Business Hub - Boston.com

Perhaps picking on a state like AZ make some of their citizens feel good/takes away them feeling responsible for their own issues?

[john3232]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I agree. But I'm trying to relate that it isn't just a racial situation. Perhaps it is more an economic factor.

Sure, there is an economical factor. If you're 19, a high school dropout with two kids it's almost impossible to make it regardless of race. And the children often repeat the cycle.

Now, if the problems of kids having kids/drop out rates were equally spread across racial lines it might be easier to discuss.

However, it's not and off-limits to any politician who wants to stay in office.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I agree. But I'm trying to relate that it isn't just a racial situation. Perhaps it is more an economic factor.

It's a family cultural factor. On average, people who have a thicker wallet care more about education. Let's not forget there are many poor immigrants that come to the USA to kick butt. The Vietnamese community comes to mind.

On average, when a family continues to get more and more freebies, they learn to be lazy and they lack motivation to charge. Giving away free food, insurance, subsidized housing, etc is actually hurting their family culture in the long run and not helping them. I'm not exactly sure how we fix that problem but by "helping" them, we are actually hurting their motivation.

Here is what people mean about throwing money at the problem: "Minneapolis Public Schools (MPS), it says, spends $23,000 per student, or about twice the state average, yet graduates fewer than 50 percent of its students on time." from MPS critique offers an ideological spur to resentment | MinnPost. IMHO, the bulk of that money is being wasted on cultures that don't care.

More money that is carefully spent DOES correlate to better results so long as the families in the school are motivated to perform. But people who don't get it will have all the "proof" they need once they add in the areas that will never perform with any amount of money that is spent. Hence, too many people in AZ figure spending $7500 per pupil seems like a smart idea. In my mind, that's not enough funding and in the minds of people who want the best results for their kids.

A levy is coming up here in our AZ district and I'd love to vote yes. But I cannot because I am registered in MN. It may not pass. I don't understand what the parents who vote no are thinking. I don't automatically vote yes. But $7500 per pupil is not enough.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

...

Here is what people mean about throwing money at the problem: "Minneapolis Public Schools (MPS), it says, spends $23,000 per student, or about twice the state average, yet graduates fewer than 50 percent of its students on time." from MPS critique offers an ideological spur to resentment | MinnPost. IMHO, the bulk of that money is being wasted on cultures that don't care.

Perhaps they are throwing money at the problem. But we can't really tell based on your post or on the article.

What exactly is the money being spent on? Programs that have been successful elsewhere? Or fluff?

Can they hire high quality teachers to work there? (And what I mean by that is that with rare exceptions, the best teachers in the DC area avoided DC schools like the plauge, and to some extent Prince Georges County Schools), while flocking to better schools and neighborhoods in Mongomery County, Fairfax County, and to some extent, Arlington County).

And I'm very uncomfortable with a couple of statements you have made over a couple of posts, similar to "the bulk of that money is being wasted on cultures that don't care". What are you really saying there? That if a particular school isn't performing cut the funding to that school and say, "Tough luck. You folks don't care enough."?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Perhaps they are throwing money at the problem. But we can't really tell based on your post or on the article.

What exactly is the money being spent on? Programs that have been successful elsewhere? Or fluff?

Can they hire high quality teachers to work there? (And what I mean by that is that with rare exceptions, the best teachers in the DC area avoided DC schools like the plauge, and to some extent Prince Georges County Schools), while flocking to better schools and neighborhoods in Mongomery County, Fairfax County, and to some extent, Arlington County).

And I'm very uncomfortable with a couple of statements you have made over a couple of posts, similar to "the bulk of that money is being wasted on cultures that don't care". What are you really saying there? That if a particular school isn't performing cut the funding to that school and say, "Tough luck. You folks don't care enough."?

The bulk of the dollars are being spent on babysitting. A.K.A. social workers, police in the schools, counselors, etc. They are spending a fortune and it is not working. They should spend the average of $11.5K and call it a day. I predict the scores will be the same if they spend $11.5K or $40.5K. Fix the family culture and you will see the test scores sky rocket. The uncaring family culture is the core problem; pure and simple. Teachers cannot teach those who don't want to learn.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

The bulk of the dollars are being spent on babysitting. A.K.A. social workers, police in the schools, counselors, etc. They are spending a fortune and it is not working. They should spend the average of $11.5K and call it a day. I predict the scores will be the same if they spend $11.5K or $40.5K. Fix the family culture and you will see the test scores sky rocket. The uncaring family culture is the core problem; pure and simple. Teachers cannot teach those who don't want to learn.

Putting police in schools is getting to be a very common strategy around the country, and not just in the schools where there are issues. We were the best or second best middle school in Fairfax County, Virginia. I had LBJ's granddaughter in my school, Dan Quayle's sons until he became VP, and many other children whose parents were bigwigs. We had a police officer, too.

And, it was amazing as state standards came in how teachers began teaching some of the kids "who didn't want to learn".

I don't think you've been in many of these families you are denigrating. Many of those fathers are working 2 jobs, and the mother is working, as well. They go to church every Sunday. And they want a better life for their children.

And even for those who don't fit that framework, you just throw off a statement like needing to fix the family core structure. And how exactly would you do that in, let's say, the poorest neighborhoods in Phoenix?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Putting police in schools is getting to be a very common strategy around the country, and not just in the schools where there are issues. We were the best or second best middle school in Fairfax County, Virginia. I had LBJ's granddaughter in my school, Dan Quayle's sons until he became VP, and many other children whose parents were bigwigs. We had a police officer, too.

And, it was amazing as state standards came in how teachers began teaching some of the kids "who didn't want to learn".

I don't think you've been in many of these families you are denigrating. Many of those fathers are working 2 jobs, and the mother is working, as well. They go to church every Sunday. And they want a better life for their children.

And even for those who don't fit that framework, you just throw off a statement like needing to fix the family core structure. And how exactly would you do that in, let's say, the poorest neighborhoods in Phoenix?

Now a days, pretty much every schools has police including the ones that spend $7500.

I'm not denigrating anyone and I don't appreciate your assumptions. I'm stating a fact that money isn't helping when people don't care to learn. I'd stating the obvious that some family cultures value education while others don't. Note: I don't care about their color or ethnicity. There is no shortage of families that are Hispanic for instance that are passionate about education.

When a student wants to learn, spending more money helps. BUT, the law of diminishing returns is alive and well including with education. If I was at the helm, I'd slowly cut people off welfare. Welfare makes the problem worse. Too many people are reproducing that shouldn't be. There are far worse problems in other countries and we cannot help everyone. If you are born in the USA/Phoenix, people need to learn you have to appreciate the opportunity. If you p_iss it away, then you are will end up where you end up. It might be jail or ??

What I do know is Phoenix doesn't invest enough in the areas where kids want to do well. The Phoenix area has a perception problem. That was the economics point.

I am the only person in my family that got a college education (EE) out of 6 boys at the UofMN. Some of my brothers dropped out and got into trouble. None of them stepped a toe in anything post secondary. I became passionate on the benefits of a quality education. Fast forward: I could not be prouder of my kids accomplishments. That was our family culture and they have accomplished some great things. They had fantastic and motivated teachers which made their accomplishments possible. Meanwhile a full 30% of their classmates (non-accelerated classes) coasted and could not pass the extremely basic standardized tests. As you see, they had a different family culture yet they attended the same schools. Thankfully our MN schools had plenty of funding so that they could hire a great staff and have enough $$'s to have advanced opportunities.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Putting police in schools is getting to be a very common strategy around the country, and not just in the schools where there are issues. We were the best or second best middle school in Fairfax County, Virginia. I had LBJ's granddaughter in my school, Dan Quayle's sons until he became VP, and many other children whose parents were bigwigs. We had a police officer, too.
\

How did Dan Quayle's son spell potatoe?

Just kidding of course!



Dan Quayle Misspells 'Potato' - YouTube