My ideas for Valley Metro future improvements (bus, pollution)

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by observer53

I suspect there will be some expansion of the bus system based on Prop 104, but not this extensive anytime in the foreseeable future. It's taken forever to get Orbit service south of the 60, and it will be VERY limited and is not particularly well thought out, IMO. So, I'd rather discuss the real plans, not your grandiose ones. They don't help people looking for real, accurate information.

Note that Proposition 104 only covers the City of Phoenix, and serves no purpose for other cities. I highly doubt future bus service expansion will solely be within the Phoenix city limits. The East Valley (Chandler and Gilbert in particular) has a greater need for bus service expansion than the City of Phoenix itself does, since the City of Phoenix is already well served.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Note that Proposition 104 only covers the City of Phoenix, and serves no purpose for other cities. I highly doubt future bus service expansion will solely be within the Phoenix city limits. The East Valley (Chandler and Gilbert in particular) has a greater need for bus service expansion than the City of Phoenix itself does, since the City of Phoenix is already well served.

You are correct about Prop 104. So, where will the money come from for all your dream East Valley bus service? Makes it even more unlikely that your "dreams" will ever be reality. You are so out of touch with what this (and the rail lines) cost, and what areas will actually support the service you are dreaming about. Some of your routes are just never going to be justified, even in your lifetime, much less mine.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

I found this interesting Wiki, and I decided to make how I think Valley Metro should look like in the future. Obviously it includes my dream light rail lines, but I also decided to add bus routes, as well as the bus and rail fleets. I added a few local routes, a few express routes, and several more neighborhood circulators.

Improved bus service in suburban areas, including neighborhood circulators is a possibility ... however, if it does happen, it will occur gradually. Light rail extension will take even longer to achieve due to all the construction involved. Even then, many of your dream lines will not come true.

Originally Posted by observer53

Well, let's be clear, you may have found the site, but you WROTE what's in the link. Why don't we wait and see what the ACTUAL plans for bus expansion are based on Prop 104, not your thoughts and dreams. This isn't helpful to people wanting to learn more about the actual present and near future public transit system in Phoenix. I'd suggest you find a blog to talk about this subject, since you are fairly obsessed with it.

I tend to agree ... however, you have to give Pink Jazz credit for one thing: he has positive vision! That's more than I can say for many NIMBYs who are so negative about progress & development, and would protest practically anything. All they care about is their sunshine, mountain views, and their so called tranquility.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Improved bus service in suburban areas, including neighborhood circulators is a possibility ... however, if it does happen, it will occur gradually. Light rail extension will take even longer to achieve due to all the construction involved. Even then, many of your dream lines will not come true.



I tend to agree ... however, you have to give Pink Jazz credit for one thing: he has positive vision! That's more than I can say for many NIMBYs who are so negative about progress & development, and would protest practically anything. All they care about is their sunshine, mountain views, and their so called tranquility.

Well, portions of the Blue, Silver, Pink, and Brown Lines have been mentioned as potential high capacity transit corridors (either light rail or BRT) in the past, and the Green Line is actually based on a real proposal (the Tempe Streetcar). For the buses, Ray and Val Vista have been mentioned as potential future new bus routes.

[Pink Jazz]

Also, just for people don't think I am discriminating against the West Valley, I just added two more circulator routes: The Peoria Pixie and the Surprise-Sun Cities Star. Both routes would be operated by Valu Trans.

[pvande55]

Why not commuter rail? It can be much faster than driving or light rail. It's been added in Orlando, Salt Lake an Albuquerque among other places. And yes, it has even been tried in Phoenix, though a long time ago and for just a short time. http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...ditorial2.html

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by pvande55

Why not commuter rail? It can be much faster than driving or light rail. It's been added in Orlando, Salt Lake an Albuquerque among other places. And yes, it has even been tried in Phoenix, though a long time ago and for just a short time. http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...ditorial2.html

Commuter rail, while it may sound ideal due to its low implementation costs, also has its drawbacks. First, the existing freight train right of way wasn't designed for transit purposes in mind, and may not be ideal as far as ridership goes, since it may not actually go where people want to go. Light rail can connect major employment centers, downtown areas, and malls better than commuter rail ever can since it can be placed almost anywhere. You have to factor in the ROI of all options rather than just the implementation costs and speed. Speed does not generate revenue for transit agencies, ridership does.

[AzMadMax]

The light rail is a complete and utter loser. We have gotten ripped off by not only the manufacturer but also whomever in the State got their back sides greased. The taxpayer is getting robbed as usual and it's a total money loser and now, thanks to people that are horribly ignorant, in the midterms, ya'll voted for that 30B tiny extension which is just more robbing of the taxpayer for quite literally zero return in any way, shape or form. It's a huge joke and we should just tear it out and get the money back from the light rail guy's and find out who in the State is the fool that made this bad deal - which I'm also sure got a nice fat pocket now - that needs to be removed and arrested. What a freaking joke. A little factoid. We could have had a beautiful (up in the air off the street) futuristic monorail that wouldn't have gouged the taxpayer like in Seattle, that would have been quite cost effective,
but noooooo........ instead we got a massively overpriced piece of junk.

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by AzMadMax

The light rail is a complete and utter loser. We have gotten ripped off by not only the manufacturer but also whomever in the State got their back sides greased. The taxpayer is getting robbed as usual and it's a total money loser and now, thanks to people that are horribly ignorant, in the midterms, ya'll voted for that 30B tiny extension which is just more robbing of the taxpayer for quite literally zero return in any way, shape or form. It's a huge joke and we should just tear it out and get the money back from the light rail guy's and find out who in the State is the fool that made this bad deal - which I'm also sure got a nice fat pocket now - that needs to be removed and arrested. What a freaking joke. A little factoid. We could have had a beautiful (up in the air off the street) futuristic monorail that wouldn't have gouged the taxpayer like in Seattle, that would have been quite cost effective,
but noooooo........ instead we got a massively overpriced piece of junk.

I disagree, I don't even ride the light rail hardly ever. But I can tell you driving down the line, the economic impact has been huge. In Tempe, trailer parks were replaced with some nice midrise residential. Apache Blvd/Main Street used to be a dump as was some of the Phoenix areas. These areas would not have seen economic investment if it weren't for the light rail.

[Voebe]

Originally Posted by TempeAZnative

This forum isn't the right place to continually post these type of posts. These are just your fantasy, and will never happen. You should just contact Valley Metro with this, but I have a feeling you already do that daily anyway.

Excuse me, but I find that attitude silly. I think it's a great subject for discussion, and should be regarded as important, since it's linked to issues of congestion and pollution. I also think it's likely fruitless for one person to try to goad Valley Metro to any action, although of course I applaud anyone who tries (as I do myself).