What size do you see the Phoenix area growing into by 2050? (Tucson: 2014, subdivisions)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by blam

Personally I agree with your point that theres at least a bunch of cities with better climates than Phoenix but you gave absolutely terrible examples. Obviously these places have much better climates. Even people who defend 115 temp as nice weather know that. However the cost of living is so extreme in these cities nobody even thinks about them as realistic destination for living. So you cannot use these examples to argue with the Phoenix-people

People who say Phoenix has a really good climate/temperature pretty much disqualify any city that has a possibility of snow and also everything east of New Mexico because of the humidity. So if you also filter out any city that is more expensive than Phoenix you are not left with much. At this point you are restricted only to the southwest excluding close to the ocean because of price. In my opinion there is only one city that has better climate than Phoenix based on this criteria. Albuquerque, NM. However Phoenix-people wouldn't want to live there because of other reasons like lack of jobs etc.

I specifically stated that the main problem with those west coast cities (and Honolulu) is the high cost of living. In fact, there was a time when I contemplated moving to San Diego because the climate is so much nicer than Phoenix ... but I gave up that dream a long time ago for good reasons, and one was the cost of living. The other reason was I finally wised up to the fact that moving somewhere solely for better weather is rather silly. Other reasons for moving should take priority, such as better jobs.

Do you seriously believe Albuquerque has a better climate than Phoenix? Many people would disagree with that (myself included). Albuquerque might have somewhat cooler summers, but they have much colder, drier winters with frequent sub freezing temps for lows. I drove through Albuquerque last month on my way to Colorado, and personally I think it's pretty bland there. It's really only good for a pit stop but little else.

[jamies]

Just wondering what all those people are planning to drink?

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by jamies

Just wondering what all those people are planning to drink?

My drink of choice would be a prickly pear-flavored margarita, my absolute favorite. And plenty of them if I'm still stuck here what would be your drink of choice?

[Java Jolt]

The water issue isn't a big concern, Phoenix seems to have plenty of sources for it even for the expectation of millions more people.

We need to conserve as much as possible and not be wasteful but I don't think it will come down to rationing or outlawing car washes, pools, grass, and trees.

If by chance there is a water shortage in the future, don't expect the Phoenix MSA to keep growing like it has been.

[ShampooBanana]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

The water issue isn't a big concern, Phoenix seems to have plenty of sources for it even for the expectation of millions more people.

We need to conserve as much as possible and not be wasteful but I don't think it will come down to rationing or outlawing car washes, pools, grass, and trees.

If by chance there is a water shortage in the future, don't expect the Phoenix MSA to keep growing like it has been.

Yep. The water issue here is not nearly what it is in California. Water here is well managed and supplied. Also, water use for residential is actually less than equivalent areas of agricultural, so as former agricultural land gets converted water use goes down some. Per capita water use has gone down over the past 25 years even as the population has greatly increased due to much more efficient use. See the charts in this link for a visual: https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservice.../historicaluse


Phoenix has a long way to go before water usage would become a serious hindrance to growth.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by ShampooBanana

Yep. The water issue here is not nearly what it is in California. Water here is well managed and supplied. Also, water use for residential is actually less than equivalent areas of agricultural, so as former agricultural land gets converted water use goes down some. Per capita water use has gone down over the past 25 years even as the population has greatly increased due to much more efficient use. See the charts in this link for a visual: https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservice.../historicaluse


Phoenix has a long way to go before water usage would become a serious hindrance to growth.

Arizona has the legal right to sufficient water supplies, that said the price of water will necessarily increase in the coming years due to a lot of things ranging from Climate Change to GMA workarounds. Either way Phoenix won't be the Guinea pig, we'll all see it coming in Tucson, Santa Cruz, and Pinal County first.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

The water issue isn't a big concern, Phoenix seems to have plenty of sources for it even for the expectation of millions more people.

We need to conserve as much as possible and not be wasteful but I don't think it will come down to rationing or outlawing car washes, pools, grass, and trees.

If by chance there is a water shortage in the future, don't expect the Phoenix MSA to keep growing like it has been.

The water issue is mainly with the concerns of our other neighbor states (California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, and even Colorado) and if they are also actively working for conservation. With Denver (yes, Denver does use some Colorado River water), LA, San Diego, Vegas, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Phoenix, Flagstaff, Tucson, and Saint George, all using a very important water source we will all be doomed. So we should be looking towards making sure our fellow states work on water policy like ourselves.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

The water issue is mainly with the concerns of our other neighbor states (California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, and even Colorado) and if they are also actively working for conservation. With Denver (yes, Denver does use some Colorado River water), LA, San Diego, Vegas, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Phoenix, Flagstaff, Tucson, and Saint George, all using a very important water source we will all be doomed. So we should be looking towards making sure our fellow states work on water policy like ourselves.

My point was Phoenix has other water sources besides the Colorado River and seems to be in good shape for its long-term supply compared to some of the other cities you listed.

That doesn't mean we should be wasteful with what we have.

It really irritates me when I see broken sprinkler-irrigation systems with rivers of water flowing in the streets, or water mains breaking and causing street erosion because of someone's careless actions.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by ShampooBanana

Yep. The water issue here is not nearly what it is in California. Water here is well managed and supplied. Also, water use for residential is actually less than equivalent areas of agricultural, so as former agricultural land gets converted water use goes down some. Per capita water use has gone down over the past 25 years even as the population has greatly increased due to much more efficient use. See the charts in this link for a visual: https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservice.../historicaluse


Phoenix has a long way to go before water usage would become a serious hindrance to growth.

Good points, and thanks for providing that informative web link. Next time I see any posts on this forum (especially from some of the recent transplants) about how Phoenix should ban grass lawns because they waste water, I'll simply refer them to that site proving how water consumption has steadily decreased over the years despite the population increase. One interesting thing I noticed about that graph is how water usage was the lowest during the wetter years (1992, 1993, 1995, and another slight drop in 2010). If people want more water conservation, they should be hoping for more rain, especially during the winter months.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Good points, and thanks for providing that informative web link. Next time I see any posts on this forum (especially from some of the recent transplants) about how Phoenix should ban grass lawns because they waste water, I'll simply refer them to that site proving how water consumption has steadily decreased over the years despite the population increase. One interesting thing I noticed about that graph is how water usage was the lowest during the wetter years (1992, 1993, 1995, and another slight drop in 2010). If people want more water conservation, they should be hoping for more rain, especially during the winter months.

Very well-written.

Can you imagine what Phoenix would be like without any grass, shadetrees, pools, car washes, or misters?

It would be totally miserable in the summertime.