High Percentage of young rich guys in Phoenix (Mesa, Scottsdale: real estate market, rent)

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by asufan

This is all I need to know, you're not a car person so you can't justify spending money on a car. Some of us enjoy cars and the investment is worthwhile. Stop assuming things about others financial situation or lack of awareness of opportunity costs. I read that book 20 years ago, it's old news.

I didn't assume. I based what I said on research. Old news or not, the research results haven't changed significantly in 20 years. Jean Chatzky did a similar study in 2008 of 5000 different households in America and come to very similar conclusions as the Millionaire Next Door. She wrote about it in her book The Difference.

But providing links is a waste of time.

People ask for proof in the form of a link.

Then you provide it (doesn't matter how many you provide).

Then people dismiss any and all links provided.

Why even bother to ask for links when you've already made up your mind?

You can enjoy cars all you want. Just don't call them an investment.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by asufan

I started reading about early retirement and investment (and started investing in equities) when I was 19. I started investing in Real Estate when I was 22 and in grad school. I've been there, done that and don't need book or blog recommendations. I agree there's probably a subset of engineers that live that hippie lifestyle and it's definitely a lifestyle choice, but my experience with the software developer crowd is that when they come to our house the couple times a year when we entertain them, the street in front of my house looks like a rapper lives there with all the luxury cars

I think hippie lifestyle is an odd description. I wouldn't consider Mr. Money Mustache a hippie. Hippie conjures up images of not paying much attention to money at all and just barely getting by.

Originally Posted by asufan

You're preaching not purchasing nicer cars in order to have financial freedom at a young age and not become a slave to your job. What I and others are pointing out is that many can have BOTH. I wouldn't make assumptions about others just because your personal situation may not fit within that kind of budget.

There are always a few who can live the fancy lifestyle and achieve early financial independence. I can't. And neither can most people. I'm not knocking people who can. But most people who get to early financial independence live low overhead lifestyles. No, most aren't living in a hovel like some of their detractors claim, but they live pretty modestly.

People love pointing out the exception to the rule. But the exception is still just that--the exception.

[pittsflyer]

Originally Posted by Flavia84

Lot’s of farce and putting on a show. Overleveraged, 50K millionaires driving leased luxury cars while sharing their “luxury” rental with 2 roommates.

If you want to see lots of rich young guys, the Bay Area is the place. Over there, tech millionaires and scientists driving priuses and dresed like panhandlers. Very interesting phenomena.

I love it, I love the panhandler look, i hope that catches on.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

What you don't get is that a lot of people enjoy financial security and the low stress life that comes with it over a life of expensive possessions that end up being a lot of work and stress to pay for and take care of. Money in savings and investment buys you time. Life is short. You can't get your time back. Some of us think the reliable economy care is more than enough if it means we get to be in charge of our time.

The "Millionaire Next Door" was written more for average income people in order to teach them to live under their means as well for people who are making bank and are blowing it. The book can be summarized in one page here The Millionaire Next Door Summary at WikiSummaries, free book summaries . Because in order to join "the club" as a working bee, you need to turn off the desire to spend and be a lot smarter about what you do with your money. Simple!

Here are some of the interesting stats from the summary:

1.) 80% of America’s millionaires are first-generation rich. This is contrary to those who would have you believe that wealth is usually inherited. (new versus old money).
2.) 20% of millionaires are retired
3.) 50% of millionaires own a business

Now here is a list of the highest average working-bees:
Top paying jobs in America - Business Insider

Notice that they are focused in the medical field. i.e. doctors and dentists. Saying that, there is a HUGE gradient with doctor wages across the country. As in a radiologist might make $500K in MN versus the same specialty doc in CA at around $270K (yea docs often make less in "more desirable' locations). So don't get too hung up on the averages for MD's.

None the less, a guy who goes to school for an electrical engineer and gets his PhD might make $150K a year. Or the top 10% of college professors make $168K https://www.careermatch.com/job-prep...rofessor-make/ (average professors make about $80K). In other words, companies aren't normally sharing with the working bees unless they have to (the very top movers and shakers). Or to put it another way, $150K doesn't go very far in 2018. So people who are "average" income in AZ (1/2 of them) or $45K family income have no option but to pinch EVERY penny if they actually want some security. A new car could never be justified.

Therefore, the people who are close to the money and own their own gig statistically make the most $$'s. So sure, I know customers who are blowing pretty much everything that they bring in. A guess: $1M+ and they need to wait for a month to buy a new $40K widget.

Still, the majority of my wealthy customer (90%+ are millionaires) DO drive nice cars and live in extremely nice spots. A customer from North Scottsdale bought a 100+ foot yacht. His house wasn't anything special. But his PASSION was boats and he is a cheap SOB on every other topic. So yea, there are car guys and there are travel people. Each may blow $20K a year on their passion (I'm figuring depreciation on a new exotic car). If they have the $$'s to back them up, why not? MY approach was to work the least amount as I can. But I have my buttons that I blow a lot of money. For me, I eat out 400 times a year and spend $20K on meals for my wife and I. In fact, its steak and lobster tonight! That's the same amount as the guy who blows $$'s on his car.

So because you are a working bee and you read that book, you may inaccurately assume that nearly everyone with a passion and a nice car is blowing it all.

With that said, the book is right that a lot of people DO blow what they make. In a personal example, our lake is littered with $100K+ wake boards in any given weekend (most are boating visitors and don't live on the lake). I drive a 2005 "Party Barge" worth $12K. I asked the local retailer how many people finance. He said "90% with a 20 year loan!" Therefore, I come from the school of thought that if you really want a new ___________, you better have the dollars in the bank to stroke a check for it and it better not hurt. If not, you cannot really "afford it".

Oh... I went off script a little with my cheapness... I treated myself on a luxury car. More specifically a loaded 2017 Cadillac XTS https://www.servicegm.com/2017-cadil...ayette-la.html . It listed for $53K. I paid $28K (below wholesale) with 12K miles. I paid cash. It was absolutely perfect. But in 2018, cars depreciate FAST (60% new vehicles sold are SUV's or xovers). Luxury cars drop even faster. And AMERICAN luxury cars faster yet. Someone not-so-smart before me took the massive blood bath. The bottom line is it's going to cost me $3K a year to drive in depreciation per year. So is you see me with my mid-life crisis car, don't assume I'm broke. Because when I decided to buy it, I worked really hard for three weeks (about 80 hours a week) to pay for it. But I had to check the Cadillac box at least once; marketing works. And no, it didn't make me any happier.

[rowhomecity]

If anything it is the culture of PHX to be flashy, especially in terms of your car.

Most of the sunbelt cities emphasize this display, but Phoenix tends to do it more so than others.


Just because someone has a new BMW with tinted windows and 20" rims, does not mean they are wealthy.

Phoenix, definitely has some wealthy pockets, and has a healthy amount of outside wealth that resides in locales like Scottsdale, but in terms of metro wealth/rankings it pretty much falls in line with its size.

Phoenix is the 14th largest metro in the USA with 4.4 Million people and when ranking its % of wealth it comes at about the same # and ranks somewhere around 14.

Metro Phoenix has a lot of poverty, and actually has one of the highest poverty rates of any large metro in the nation. Not saying wealth does not exist, it definitely does, but its not in the overwhelming quantity you are describing.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Careful with that red key! That thing is a BEAST! I had a basic 6 cyl Camaro as a rental recently. It had 1400 miles on it and rattled like crazy. It felt really cheap. It was really basic, but I can’t image that the fit and finish is much better on the SS and up. Granted you could probably have two Camaro SSs, but give me an M4 over any of those all day. For a toy car I always play around with the idea of picking up an older Boxster S. If you can stomach the IMS issues, you’d be hard pressed to find a better light, play car.

Cmon, man. They don't rattle like crazy. That's just nonsense. Ive had good seat time in the new Camaros and they were solid as anything else Ive been in, including the 2018 Maxima. In fact, I think the Camaro uses more soft touch and higher quality plastics than the 3 series do. And yes, if you upgrade, you get alcantara this, and carbon fiber that. But please, just because you don't like American cars, don't let wild stories fill your head. If you start telling a lie long enough, you can eventually believe it.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Cmon, man. They don't rattle like crazy. That's just nonsense. Ive had good seat time in the new Camaros and they were solid as anything else Ive been in, including the 2018 Maxima. In fact, I think the Camaro uses more soft touch and higher quality plastics than the 3 series do. And yes, if you upgrade, you get alcantara this, and carbon fiber that. But please, just because you don't like American cars, don't let wild stories fill your head. If you start telling a lie long enough, you can eventually believe it.

I love American cars. I own one, and an American motorcycle. Hell, I'm from Detroit! That Camaro was plasticky, rattly and cheap feeling. It reminded me of the low-budge interior from my former C6 Vette, which was awful. It has that parts bin feel with various switches, buttons, levers from any other random GM product.

[grmi66]

I used to live somewhat near PIR and if you want to see what a real millionaire looks like watch the traffic the week before a NASCAR event. Tons of people driving $300-$500,000+ RV's and towing a big fancy vehicle behind to drive around for the week. Not all of them are from Phoenix, but quite a few are. When I saw them at the grocery store they all appeared to be blue collar guys.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by grmi66

I used to live somewhat near PIR and if you want to see what a real millionaire looks like watch the traffic the week before a NASCAR event. Tons of people driving $300-$500,000+ RV's and towing a big fancy vehicle behind to drive around for the week. Not all of them are from Phoenix, but quite a few are. When I saw them at the grocery store they all appeared to be blue collar guys.

Ridiculous, millionaires only drive 15 year old pickups

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

I love American cars. I own one, and an American motorcycle. Hell, I'm from Detroit! That Camaro was plasticky, rattly and cheap feeling. It reminded me of the low-budge interior from my former C6 Vette, which was awful. It has that parts bin feel with various switches, buttons, levers from any other random GM product.

C6's were notoriously plasticky (if that's an actual word), I agree. I found the 2017 Camaro to be a VAST upgrade from the last one.