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An "event" is a scientific or statistical term. So yes, if you or I hear any Luke jet noise that is an event. It seems as though we have made some progress! You DO hear Luke jets by you. My response would be of course!
It's easy to quantify and quality the total events (duration, magnitude, and frequency). What remains is what someone's subjective opinion is in relation to an acceptable level (plus duration and frequency).
In your example, another neighbor may not even care about the barking dog. To him, it might be a non-factor! Yet to you, it's driving you nuts. Basically, we have spent multiple paragraphs debating semantics or subjective opinions. It's why some people call and complain about noise while other people LOVE the sound of freedom. But what we have established is your neighborhood has Luke airport noise. A whole lot less than Ponderosa's storage facility. Still, unacceptable to someone like me. Especially knowing 30% additional planes are coming. Recognize that does not mean it will scale to 30% more flights (but it might). Crazy things like budgets and pilot retention can factor into the total sorties. That information comes straight out of the mouth of the Luke communication director.
An "event" is a scientific or statistical term. So yes, if you or I hear any Luke jet noise that is an event. It seems as though we have made some progress! You DO hear Luke jets by you. My response would be of course!
It's easy to quantify and quality the total events (duration, magnitude, and frequency). What remains is what someone's subjective opinion is in relation to an acceptable level (plus duration and frequency).
In your example, another neighbor may not even care about the barking dog. To him, it might be a non-factor! Yet to you, it's driving you nuts. Basically, we have spent multiple paragraphs debating semantics or subjective opinions. It's why some people call and complain about noise while other people LOVE the sound of freedom. But what we have established is your neighborhood has Luke airport noise. A whole lot less than Ponderosa's storage facility. Still, unacceptable to someone like me. Especially knowing 30% additional planes are coming. Recognize that does not mean it will scale to 30% more flights (but it might). Crazy things like budgets and pilot retention can factor into the total sorties. That information comes straight out of the mouth of the Luke communication director.
Huh? I've clearly said in multiple previous posts in this thread that I can hear luke jets far off in the distance once in awhile. Nothing has changed and no progress has been made other than identifying that you are not paying attention.
Aircraft noise is not a problem in my neighborhood (looks like the second worst spot in Goodyear for noise) or much of Goodyear and your 30 minutes of drinking a beer at the Pebble Creek Tuscany Falls Golf Course (the worst spot in Goodyear for noise) isn't indicative of the rest of Goodyear. The whole point of this argument was to dispute that "most" of Goodyear has some major aircraft noise problem. That is the advice you gave the OP and said it is a show stopper...Unless the OP is building a house exactly where you were drinking a beer your warning isn't accurate.
So what you're trying to convince us all of is that my 11 years of never hearing a neighbor mention or complain about aircraft noise, those in this thread that actually live here saying their isn't an aircraft noise problem where they live, is less convincing evidence than your assumptions and theories from living in a distant northern city that experiences a ton of noise? Oh yeah, you drank a beer in the worst spot in the entire city for noise and heard aircraft...I guess that does make you the expert.
It is wise for anyone to ensure the noise level is acceptable where they plan on living...most people would find the majority of Goodyear acceptable when it comes to noise levels.
To be honest with you...what concerns me most about my homes location is that it is directly under the east/west flight path to and from Sky Harbor and Southern California. Hundreds of aircraft fly directly over my property each day. One of them crashing into my home is more of a concern (a distant and small concern) than any noise I ever hear from Luke.
Also, I retired after nearly 3 decades in the military and the "Communication Director" doesn't handle communications with the public. Communication with the public is handled by the Public Affairs Office and Public Affairs Officers. The Communication Squadron is responsible for military communications and technologies and is where I would imagine the "Communications Director" would work. The "Communication Director" (is that even a position?) would not be fielding questions from citizens over the phone. Are you sure you actually spoke to someone at Luke and not someone at the City of Surprise?
Looking at the map, you are much closer (Marley Park) to Luke AFB than I am or the majority of Goodyear is. The flight paths appear to be more to the west of Luke than they do to the east where Goodyear and Pebble Creek are located. You seem to be in the worst spot as the flights don't go directly over Goodyear like they do the cities in the north where you live.
The flights down here are headed southwest and away from us and not right over us.
I'm no expert but we seem to be in a better location then you do so I don't know how anyone could say Goodyear or Pebble Creek are worse locations for noise. You chose to live 4 miles from the base, I chose to live 8 miles from the base. I see only two departure paths over Goodyear (outside the far northwest corner where you had a beer) but there are tons of departure and arrival paths over the northern cities where you live. It doesn't look like it is a fair comparison to me.
Looking at the map, you are much closer (Marley Park) to Luke AFB than I am or the majority of Goodyear is. The flight paths appear to be more to the west of Luke than they do to the east where Goodyear and Pebble Creek are located. You seem to be in the worst spot as the flights don't go directly over Goodyear like they do the cities in the north where you live.
The flights down here are headed southwest and away from us and not right over us.
I'm no expert but we seem to be in a better location then you do so I don't know how anyone could say Goodyear or Pebble Creek are worse locations for noise. You chose to live 4 miles from the base, I chose to live 8 miles from the base. I see only two departure paths over Goodyear (outside the far northwest corner where you had a beer) but there are tons of departure and arrival paths over the northern cities where you live. It doesn't look like it is a fair comparison to me.
It is fair to say tho, that Goodyear has worse noise than QC?
It is fair to say tho, that Goodyear has worse noise than QC?
I'll leave that to those that live in QC as I'm not going to speculate since I've never lived there. They are right next to a commercial airport so I have no idea how that affects them.
Logic would dictate that Luke is pretty far from QC
QC is right next door to a commercial airport, there is train noise also. Since I don't live there I have no idea if it is a problem or not. Luke is not the only source of noise in the valley but surely you know that?
I live in Goodyear so I can speak about the noise from Luke. I'll leave QC to those that live there.
The person that I'm trying to convince doesn't live in Goodyear but is giving incorrect information which he wants others to take as fact. The OP asked for information from those that live in Goodyear and QC, the one I'm arguing with is in NEITHER of those groups.
As somebody who’s lived our that way before (albeit not now) I’d say the worst of Luke is in Litchfield Park, El Mirage, and the southern part of Surprise. When you’re out there you don’t notice it because you get used to it. When I go out that way I’m always shocked at the noise the first few times but never thought anything of it when I was living there.
While I don’t live near QC, I do get some noise from Sky Harbor. It’s just not comparable to Luke. Thats not necessarily a bad thing tho
Huh? I've clearly said in multiple previous posts in this thread that I can hear luke jets far off in the distance. Nothing has changed and no progress has been made other than identifying that you are not paying attention.
Go back and re-read what you typed. You did not say it multiple times. Rather, you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS
I've lived in Goodyear for 11 years and "most" of Goodyear is not affected by aircraft noise. Maybe you have not looked at a map of Goodyear as "most" of Goodyear isn't in any noise corridor. [/b]
You have suggested all along that jet noise isn't around you. Of course it is!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS
Knock yourself out. I am in the development on the northeast corner of Yuma Rd and Citrus Rd. I don't know what you mean by "event" as I have said, you can hear Luke jets far off in the distance. If that is an "event" then don't waste your time.
re: SPL. Just because a person is outside of the contour maps doesn't mean you don't hear jet noise at elevated levels. Rest assured, a jet flying over Sun City (which bothers me a little) isn't remotely in the SPL's of the contours. The contour maps stop at around 65 Db. That doesn't mean they don't fly lower or wider; the maps aren't an exact noise profile either. There will be SPL outliers that will "nudge you".
So a jet flying in the distance at 60 Db which is outside of the contour is similar to a louder conversation at a busy restaurant. I measured 60 Db events over the golf course in Victory (Verrado in Buckeye). ON THE BUSY AIR TRAFFIC DAY, 12 total were observed in an hour directly over the golf course. A few minutes later, my wife (who was on the phone) heard them in the distance. I asked the guy who works the Victory Golf course (drop off station) if the jets fly over often. He said "ABSOLUTELY" and went on on how loud they are, he discussed that a pilot golfs their and "waved" to him (rocking back and forth). Yet the girl who handed me my beer 20 feet away from him said she didn't notice them much. So who is right between the two? Hint; the one that is paying attention. So you are saying "it isn't a problem". Forgive me for assuming (still) that I would have a problem in your hood. AND others would as well. After all, the noise is subjective.
Plus, you may work out of the home 5 days a week. So 11 years in your hood is meaningless just like all of my neighbors who commute to work outside of Surprise if you work out of your home. They generally don't fly on weekend or evenings. Plus, how is your hearing? Were you in the Air Force? If so, you might have a"notch" filter at the frequency of most jets. Guess what my neighbor did 100 feet across the street who said he barely hears them? He worked on an air force base for 30 years. You get my point.
Re: SPL well out of the contours (yet still mandating your signature that you live near the base). 50 Db is an example of a quieter conversation inside your home. Again, a 50 Db jet noise (conversation level in your home) is a distraction for me but to others it's not. Often, I can hear a jet overhead 6+ miles away if the engine is pointing towards me. In another example, a bird chips at around 45 Db. Picture the sound of an F-35 jet (at bird chip levels) off in the distance MILES away from your home. Again, that's going to bother me but maybe not you. Hence, all of this is subjective.
You talked about a dog barking. If it is a couple of houses away, it's about 50 Db (ish). What gets under your skin isn't the 50 Db; rather the annoying event. Now a dog lover might think it's fine. The people behind me leave their damn yelper out. When we are in our back yard, it barks and barks. Solution, I spray my hose over the fense. The dog goes on the other side of the house, it knocks down the barking by 10-15 db, I feel accomplished and it doesn't bother me. When you notice it, it drives you nuts. Just as the Fricken landscapers that come every darn day (each neighbor has a different landscaper). Inside my home, I hear them at around 45 Db which is well under 50 Db (less than a conversation level). Recognize that the Db scale is logarithmic and not linear. So every 6 Db doubles the amplitude of the wave. But every 10 Db subjectively doubles the volume to your ears.
This ^^^^ is why you and I signed the form. Not because we are or are not in the contour warnings. Also, excluding January, February, and the 1st 10 days of March, I had ABSOLUTELY no issue with the SPL (frequency, duration, and levels). I didbnn't like it, but I found it acceptable. Just as I probably could sign off with this in Pebble Creek. But things have changed. As I have said, they went back to nrmal this past week. So just because someone spent a day or two or 5
days in ____________ neighborhood doesn't mean they know what is really going on. MY concern is when it gets bad. Because it will drive me nuts.
Again, this elevation is SPL and events could be the wind, the clouds, the temp (or I predict a darn busy flight schedule). But that's is the reason why I have characterized the SPL's, why I called Luke, why I talked with my neighbors, visited the potential neighborhoods etc. If this is the new norm (as warned by Luke and published on AZCentral.com), I'm not buying a new home in Verrado or Pebble Creek. Neither would I re-buy in Surprise. What remains to be scene is what will the future bring. I am simply not taking any chances. Because for us, in the long run, I will be selling. I won't be buying in (most of) Goodyear because of it. That includes your hood.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 03-17-2019 at 05:30 PM..
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So you are saying "it isn't a problem". Forgive me for assuming (still) that I would have a problem in your hood. AND others would as well. After all, the noise is subjective. 
