Tech jobs coming to Phoenix? (Scottsdale: rent, wage, cost)
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What, so you just aren't supposed to see your family and live life with them? You leave when everyone is sleeping, come home when everyone is about to go to bed and yay, what a great life? Or you work your ass off for 10 years for the "privilege" of a 40 hour week once you reach a senior status or become a manager or something, and you just missed over half of your kids' life?
A long day of work here and there is one thing. A release is imminent, or some critical bug is found, etc. Ok, sure, but that's the exception and not the rule. Spending all of your waking moments making some rich old jackass even richer, who would drop you like a diseased limb at the drop of a hat when someone breathes wrong on the stocks one day? What's the point of that? That's the dumbest thing anyone has ever heard of, and a lot of companies are finally on board with that. Work / Life Balance.
I've been in both worlds...coming home from work at 5:00 AM in the burbs walking into the house and leaving my car door wide open blocking numerous neighbors from leaving because I forgot to put my car in the garage...pulling all nighters to get something done for a client finding it was just a check box on their list to check off before they went on a two week vacation. Now I'm on the opposite end and I love it though I get bored sometimes. I also made the conscious choice to give up a little pay and a little glamour to work at a more reasonable work/life balance. You will probably have to make the choice to give up a little salary to slow down too. I highly recommend it.
The IT world is full of spazes that will happily work 6-7 day a week 70+ hour work days. In some instances it is fine, this computer stuff that will one day be as appreciated as those guys who put in that extra meticulous effort into making their Sanskrit tablets perfect eons ago...but it is their lives. I would argue though that I'm not sure that peak innovation happens this way. It is a work style that mimics the computers people are working with. You are trying to create something outside the bounds of those...something new. Innovation happens in a looser environment that comes with head down work hard times and playful ideas bouncing around. I worked for an educational technology research group and NONE of us worked 80 hours a week. Be we often went out to eat and talked shop, worked off hours and experimented on things when inspiration struck. Some of the people on this team went on to lead billion dollar initiatives.
I think in IT you are expected to go through the hell jobs as they make you appreciate the good IT jobs when you have them. They are out there. If you are stuck in hell do what another poster suggested and look for something else. Get your skills up, your code examples down, and the latest dictionary of buzz words and terms memorized. Jump ship. Good IT jobs are out there.
And if you are one of those people who live and breath this stuff 24/7 good for you. Just know that isn't healthy nor normal, and working yourself to death isn't always the path to victory in competition. Working smarter is. Cliche I know but there it is.
This isn't to say I'm anti a good work ethic, and in IT you have to put in the time on the side or if lucky sometimes at work to stay current, and sometimes those big checks mean you are expected to put in the long hours...it is what you signed up for. That said some places really are meat grinders to be avoided. There are a lot of grinders in Phoenix.
What, so you just aren't supposed to see your family and live life with them? You leave when everyone is sleeping, come home when everyone is about to go to bed and yay, what a great life? Or you work your ass off for 10 years for the "privilege" of a 40 hour week once you reach a senior status or become a manager or something, and you just missed over half of your kids' life?
A long day of work here and there is one thing. A release is imminent, or some critical bug is found, etc. Ok, sure, but that's the exception and not the rule. Spending all of your waking moments making some rich old jackass even richer, who would drop you like a diseased limb at the drop of a hat when someone breathes wrong on the stocks one day? What's the point of that? That's the dumbest thing anyone has ever heard of, and a lot of companies are finally on board with that. Work / Life Balance.
Hey you are free to do what you want, that's the American way. Me, I ain't itching to work a 40 hr work week, much less 70. I'm somewhat burned out after decades in the Silicon Valley rat race. I've done all that you said, including missing kids life. But it also put our family in a position where we can well educate our kids and provide them opportunities to succeed. Was it worth the sacrifice? I don't know. But hard work is one way to secure financial independence from the working slob life. Not always, but sometimes.
But, see in China they don't think that way. They are all about work work work, because that's just the culture. They can now even job hop from place to place, but it's still work like a demon. And when the nation of that size is toiling incessantly while we are picnicking at the lake every weekend, well, don't be surprised when they overtake our economy and take leadership positions in industries where we used to lead. It sucks, but it's reality. We've had it super good over here, thanks to American ingenuity and a hard work spirit, but I think we lost a bit of the latter here and there. Instead we spend energy as a country on getting more divided, which China also loves to see.
I believe we've had our run, and somebody seriously broke the American way that led us to be number one. Be interesting to see the country as an organism can mutate to survive and thrive.
I've been in both worlds...coming home from work at 5:00 AM in the burbs walking into the house and leaving my car door wide open blocking numerous neighbors from leaving because I forgot to put my car in the garage...pulling all nighters to get something done for a client finding it was just a check box on their list to check off before they went on a two week vacation. Now I'm on the opposite end and I love it though I get bored sometimes. I also made the conscious choice to give up a little pay and a little glamour to work at a more reasonable work/life balance. You will probably have to make the choice to give up a little salary to slow down too. I highly recommend it.
Yup, I already have the work / life balance job. I've been here 5 years and it's been strict 8-5 M-F the whole time. I can count the number of times I've stayed more than a few minutes outside of that on one hand, and the amount of time spent each time on one hand too. It's been great. With a stay at home wife and 4 kids 5 and under, I can't be gone all day. If I end up working at a place that falsely advertises work / life balance, best believe I'm moving on in a heartbeat.
It's also very fast paced at the same time. Many different technologies and projects due to varied client needs, so there's always something interesting to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by veritased
But, see in China they don't think that way. They are all about work work work, because that's just the culture.
The highest level software exec in the company and a few of my coworkers are Chinese. One of those coworkers had a baby a few years ago. His parents would come from China for a few months at a time to watch the baby while him and his wife both worked. Then, they would switch off - the parents would go home and then her parents would come out for a few months. It goes back and forth like this. THEN, when the child hit about a year and a half old, they shipped it off to the motherland for an entire year. So one set of grandparents raised the 1 1/2 year old for 6 months, then the other set of grandparents raised it the other 6 months. Now it's back to the back and forth every few months for each set of their parents to watch the kid here.
Through all of this I'm like DAMN how do I get some of that? It's like pulling teeth trying to get the one parent we have around to watch the kids for even a few hours a couple of times per month. Setting aside 3 of our parents are AWOL anyway. Let alone for the whole day so the wife can work. Know what they both said, independently of each other when I brought this up?
IT managers, if you see a candidate who has almost all the experience but doesn't have the degree, or experience in certain software environments such as Citrix , VMware etc , Do you still consider that candidate? I see some job postings that I'm qualified for , but they *Require certain knowledge that can easily be attained within the first week or so .
IT managers, if you see a candidate who has almost all the experience but doesn't have the degree, or experience in certain software environments such as Citrix , VMware etc , Do you still consider that candidate? I see some job postings that I'm qualified for , but they *Require certain knowledge that can easily be attained within the first week or so .
I've been told time and time again that those are essentially wish lists and they understand very few, if any, people are going to 100% match it. I've been told apply anyway, if you feel you're close. It sucks to be ignored (company fail; I don't really care if you have 500 applicants, say something) or rejected, but, it's not like you're going to get black listed just for not meeting enough of their requirements, or taken out back and shot or something.
My annoyance is when applying to larger companies and trying to get past the HR zombies that just try to play the matching game with the job listing vs resume, instead of being looked at by people who actually know the job and can read the resume / letter properly and make decisions based on more than just a page full of keywords.
I've been told time and time again that those are essentially wish lists and they understand very few, if any, people are going to 100% match it. I've been told apply anyway, if you feel you're close. It sucks to be ignored (company fail; I don't really care if you have 500 applicants, say something) or rejected, but, it's not like you're going to get black listed just for not meeting enough of their requirements, or taken out back and shot or something.
My annoyance is when applying to larger companies and trying to get past the HR zombies that just try to play the matching game with the job listing vs resume, instead of being looked at by people who actually know the job and can read the resume / letter properly and make decisions based on more than just a page full of keywords.
I hate to say it, but it is true...human networking cuts through all this. Once you get a few jobs under your belt you typically (at least in my experience) get your follow on jobs through contacts with people you used to work with that know of an opening and can put in a word with the actual hiring managers who can help you get past the HR firewall. This kinda sucks as it can be unfair to some applicants but it is the way it is.
As to the wish list...open up VMWare or Citrix, play with the software client, watch a youtube video on it, and put those keywords on your resume. Kinda shady but gotta do whatcha gotta do. If actual knowledge of using APIs or running the server part of those software packages comes up they will weed you out soon enough.
The H1B program isn't as easy as it was when Trump took over promised to crack down on H1B visa holders to follow the strict law where they are only suppose to give a visa if they can't find someone in the US with the same expert background. H1B visa is not suppose to be used for low level Tech jobs, or lower pay then US citizen would get paid but Obama was allowing it. As much as I dislike Trump he got it right on this one. I never understood why Obama allowed the H1B visa system to be exploited like it was.
I know shouldn't be getting political here. This doesn't stop offshoring that's where I'm seeing more companies do just setup Indian workers who are remote.
I hate to say it, but it is true...human networking cuts through all this. Once you get a few jobs under your belt you typically (at least in my experience) get your follow on jobs through contacts with people you used to work with that know of an opening and can put in a word with the actual hiring managers who can help you get past the HR firewall. This kinda sucks as it can be unfair to some applicants but it is the way it is.
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This is one reason I have been reluctant for a while to move from the Chicago market - I know so many people, several of which have become managers, that when I need a next contract, I often just send out 10 emails to friends asking if their place needs help. I hope to build a decent network after I relocate, starting with people at the Scottsdale office for which I am now working remotely.
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