Looting at Scottsdale fashion square, smashed windows at Mercedes dealership... (Phoenix: military, legal)

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by czech mate

I know this is going to sound crazy, but it IS possible to both care about the murder of Floyd AND not want a bunch of bored teens looking for iPads and makeup destroying my city. Letting this continue is justice for no one. I don't want my city to look anything like Detroit.

Then we agree.

The point is, damaged property is of little concern compared to murder, so I’ll use my voice speaking out about the real injustices.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

While the other three cops that sat by as their comrade slowly drained the life out of a citizen are free men. Let that sink in and maybe you’ll begin to understand the disparity.

No,. that was in Minnesota. I was talking about LA clearly, so I don't need anything to "sink in". You're talking about two different events on two different days. The other police officers maybe should be charged once body camera footage is reviewed. This doesn't change the fact that I like the way LA handled the looters.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by asufan

The good news is, it's getting harder and harder for bad police officers to get away with this behavior. Not just with the cell phone cameras that are out there, but most agencies now require officers wear body cameras, so they can be reviewed from many angles. You're not going to be able to stop 100% if the trash from joining the police force but the hope is you can catch the bad behavior early and get them out before it's too late.

Absolutely, you can see it in one episode of Live PD but real criminal justice reform won't happen until the symbiotic relationship between the voting block and power of a police or fire department union and the politicians they help elect (and often negotiate) with is severed.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by asufan

No,. that was in Minnesota. I was talking about LA clearly, so I don't need anything to "sink in". You're talking about two different events on two different days. The other police officers maybe should be charged once body camera footage is reviewed. This doesn't change the fact that I like the way LA handled the looters.

Sure you do. Both happened in the US. This is a nationwide issue. But, if you want to be myopic about it, in Minneapolis a black journalist was arrested on live TV while the other three cops remained free. Just the notion that we need body cam footage to “maybe” charge the three others that stood by as a citizen was murdered on the streets proves that there is much work to do.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Sure you do. Both happened in the US. This is a nationwide issue. But, if you want to be myopic about it, in Minneapolis a black journalist was arrested on live TV while the other three cops remained free. Just the notion that we need body cam footage to “maybe” charge the three others that stood by as a citizen was murdered on the streets proves that there is much work to do.

The problem you're going to run into in MN is that the knee to the neck hold is ALLOWED in Minneapolis. That's something that needs to be and probably will be changed, but it's going to be a roadblock to a conviction unfortunately. The nature of that hold is dangerous and it's probably only supposed to be done temporarily for 20 seconds, not 10 minutes, but I bet that will keep him free. How do you charge the other officers when this was a legal tactic in the police department?

Having said that, I still like what LA did, no matter what happened in Minnesota. As a business owner, it takes a lot of hard work, sleepless nights and intestinal fortitude (balls) to get a successful business going. If you haven't put in the work or taken the risk to start your own business, I understand why you don't get the anger about the thugs of all colors ruining others hard work. I can be upset about police brutality and looting simultaneously.

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by asufan

The good news is, it's getting harder and harder for bad police officers to get away with this behavior. Not just with the cell phone cameras that are out there, but most agencies now require officers wear body cameras, so they can be reviewed from many angles. You're not going to be able to stop 100% if the trash from joining the police force but the hope is you can catch the bad behavior early and get them out before it's too late.

Qualified immunity cases may be upcoming in the Supreme Court. Favorable rulings would open police officers and departments to civil suits. This would present a major shift in reform.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by asufan

The problem you're going to run into in MN is that the knee to the neck hold is ALLOWED in Minneapolis. That's something that needs to be and probably will be changed, but it's going to be a roadblock to a conviction unfortunately. The nature of that hold is dangerous and it's probably only supposed to be done temporarily for 20 seconds, not 10 minutes, but I bet that will keep him free. How do you charge the other officers when this was a legal tactic in the police department?

Having said that, I still like what LA did, no matter what happened in Minnesota. As a business owner, it takes a lot of hard work, sleepless nights and intestinal fortitude (balls) to get a successful business going. If you haven't put in the work or taken the risk to start your own business, I understand why you don't get the anger about the thugs of all colors ruining others hard work. I can be upset about police brutality and looting simultaneously.

I don't agree with your argument. Deadly force is a legal tactic in law enforcement as well and cops have gone down for murder after using that allowable tactic. It's all about the application and you already said it. He was restrained, begging for his life and it went on for 10 minutes. No way is that in the manual. The others had a duty to step in and failed. They too should be charged with murder. I'm not overly optimistic for justice either, because it usually fails in these cases, hence the outrage we're seeing, but hopefully I'm wrong.

I am upset about the looting. I've stated that multiple times now. I'm just sick of hearing the outrage of looting and vandalism over the outrage of the senseless loss of human lives. Things are always replaceable.

[take57]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Sorry to burst your silly narrative, but no, I don’t at all condone vandalism and looting. Again though, if you’re more outraged by damaged property than by systemic racism, you are the problem. This country needs an awakening and it’s not as if peaceful protesting wasn’t attempted.

I think what you're trying to say isn't so different than what the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said back in 1966 during the Baltimore riots.

“I think that we’ve got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard."

Wise then, wise now.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

I don't agree with your argument. Deadly force is a legal tactic in law enforcement as well and cops have gone down for murder after using that allowable tactic. It's all about the application and you already said it. He was restrained, begging for his life and it went on for 10 minutes. No way is that in the manual. The others had a duty to step in and failed. They too should be charged with murder. I'm not overly optimistic for justice either, because it usually fails in these cases, hence the outrage we're seeing, but hopefully I'm wrong.

I am upset about the looting. I've stated that multiple times now. I'm just sick of hearing the outrage of looting and vandalism over the outrage of the senseless loss of human lives. Things are always replaceable.

It's not MY argument. I said that is what his defense will be and my OPINION is that it will be tough to get by.

I don't care if you're sick of the outrage over looting and destruction of property. Start a thread about police brutality in Phoenix and post in there if that's the only topic you care about. I'm capable of having opinions on a multitude of topics, maybe I'm just more evolved.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by asufan

It's not MY argument. I said that is what his defense will be and my OPINION is that it will be tough to get by.

I don't care if you're sick of the outrage over looting and destruction of property. Start a thread about police brutality in Phoenix and post in there if that's the only topic you care about. I'm capable of having opinions on a multitude of topics, maybe I'm just more evolved.

Oh sorry, I though you were stating that. I didn't realize you were speaking on behalf of the defense. Come on, man. Not trying to argue semantics, but you laid that argument out.

Again, it shines a very bright light on this issue when people voice their disgust over the "thugs" acting out at this situation over the root cause itself. Surely one can have multiple opinions on multiple issues, but its the volume and the prioritizing of such that exposes the bias that's the real cancer here.