Question for people who recently moved here! (Phoenix, Mesa: 2014, renter)

[Ponderosa]

No, the hard ground reason for no basements is not true for the most part. In some of the foothills areas it can be necessary to blast to build a pool (or basement), but much of the flat land has nothing more than a layer of caliche that is easily busted through with a bobcat with a hydraulic breaker attachment. Basements aren't popular just because basements aren't popular. The goal here is to knock out as many houses as cheaply as you can get away with. Basements add considerable time to construction and are not needed for foundation stability, so it is an expensive option if you can find it.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

No, the hard ground reason for no basements is not true for the most part. In some of the foothills areas it can be necessary to blast to build a pool (or basement), but much of the flat land has nothing more than a layer of caliche that is easily busted through with a bobcat with a hydraulic breaker attachment. Basements aren't popular just because basements aren't popular. The goal here is to knock out as many houses as cheaply as you can get away with. Basements add considerable time to construction and are not needed for foundation stability, so it is an expensive option if you can find it.

People need to be more open minded to basements. They are cheaper to cool (AZ electric bills are NOT a game) and almost always reliable during a freak natural event. Unless it’s an earthquake and then you are screwed but the only way you aren’t screwed is if you’re in an airplane, so 2nd stories still apply here anyway.

[Sonic_Spork]

I also imagine that special attention would need to go to drainage for those who want a basement. The sand based ground here isn't very absorbent and flash flooding is for sure a thing. Wouldn't want storm water going right into one's basement.

But yeah they are easier to find elsewhere, and definitely something I appreciate in a house. If it were just about the additional cost of putting one in, then why would they be so much more common in other places? They're all over in Colorado Springs, and builders don't consider it to generally be a cost that doesn't pay off. They get a whole extra bedroom or two and a bath and the square footage and just charge a bunch more for the house.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

I also imagine that special attention would need to go to drainage for those who want a basement. The sand based ground here isn't very absorbent and flash flooding is for sure a thing. Wouldn't want storm water going right into one's basement.

But yeah they are easier to find elsewhere, and definitely something I appreciate in a house. If it were just about the additional cost of putting one in, then why would they be so much more common in other places? They're all over in Colorado Springs, and builders don't consider it to generally be a cost that doesn't pay off. They get a whole extra bedroom or two and a bath and the square footage and just charge a bunch more for the house.

They're common elsewhere because the foundations need to be below the frost line anyway. Not a requirement in our warmer climate.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

People need to be more open minded to basements. They are cheaper to cool (AZ electric bills are NOT a game) and almost always reliable during a freak natural event. Unless it’s an earthquake and then you are screwed but the only way you aren’t screwed is if you’re in an airplane, so 2nd stories still apply here anyway.

I'll say this again just as I have many times before. Basements are all over the Southeast valley. I owned a home with a basement in Chandler and there are basement homes all around me in all directions.

The frost level thing is correct, however that's more of a reason why the houses in the North and East have basements, not the reason we do not. In areas where it doesn't freeze often, you don't see as many basements.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by asufan

I'll say this again just as I have many times before. Basements are all over the Southeast valley. I owned a home with a basement in Chandler and there are basement homes all around me in all directions.

The frost level thing is correct, however that's more of a reason why the houses in the North and East have basements, not the reason we do not. In areas where it doesn't freeze often, you don't see as many basements.

It's the same thing. In the north, they have to dig down anyway. The nominal cost to go another 4 feet or so is minimal relative to the cost to dig out beyond a shallow slab.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

It's the same thing. In the north, they have to dig down anyway. The nominal cost to go another 4 feet or so is minimal relative to the cost to dig out beyond a shallow slab.

That's essentially what I said. It's the reason cold climates DO, not the reason we don't. If not for the freezing soil, builders in northern states likely would have never built homes with basements, houses would have been built on or above grade. So people that move here and don't understand why we don't, that is the answer. So ponderosa and Kurt were both correct, it is both a result of cost/time and because of the climate.

[Sonic_Spork]

Hm. OK.

My thoughts were based on having googled this months ago before I moved here. I just checked back up on that and what is out there says that there IS a hard substrate that is sometimes present (it's apparently called "caliche") but they always also circle back to what everyone is saying here... Sure, it's possible, but given that it's not necessary, it's not considered to be worth the additional cost.

I mean...lots of places "up north" have rocky landscapes that would probably have similar challenges to excavate, so in comparing one to another, what you're saying makes a lot of sense.

https://kjzz.org/content/708380/qaz-...have-basements

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ents/83657532/

https://askinglot.com/why-are-there-...-arizona-homes

They all tell the same story.

(EDIT: LOL I put "up north" in the quotes because having lived in Ohio, Iowa, Washington, and later Colorado, Colorado does not feel like the "north" to me though relatively of course it is....it still is, in my brain, part of the "Southwest" overall, kinda... )

[caryberry]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

I constantly refer to Florida as the swamp and so does my family who lives there. I’ve also heard many Texans and Louisianans refer to Houston and New Orleans as the swamp.

Prickly Pear - nothing personal but people from New Orleans (south Louisiana) know they live in a swamp (part of a bayou). There is nothing new about that. More importantly Louisiana people don’t care what non-natives think. Hand to God - we don’t feel about home the same way as other people. As a native of New Orleans - a swamp/bayou usually has a proper name and is more of a landmark or destination than a description.

As far as knowing the neighbors - after 15+ years in Scottsdale, 12 years in the same house - we don’t know our neighbors. We don’t want to know them either. Initially when we moved in the neighbors harassed us to the point where I got restraining orders against two of them. They were part of the original owners from the 70’s…and were mad that we had to sue the seller for fraud. Location is the only thing we have in common. This holds true for people everywhere not just Phoenix.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by goolsbyjazz

Let's try this; Phoenix is a city located in the Sonoran desert.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I always find the "desert" references a bit annoying. A team will play the Diamondbacks at Chase Field and the folks on SportsCenter will refer to the game as being played in the desert. It's not in the desert, it's downtown for god's sake. When I refer to something as being "in the desert" it's something out of town, much like people in Michigan refer to something as being "in the country".