Right to work benefit's who? (lawyer, unemployment, income)

[Finger Laker]

JillBoBill - that doesn't sound right about the unions deciding how much you get paid in most industries - maybe in some trade shops where you are at a certain level and the union puts you at different job sites - but in that case you essentially work for the union on a contract to a company as opposed to working for a company under union representation

ponderosa - exactly - many people can't figure out the difference between right to work and at will employment

most states and even most union shops have at will employment - the flip to that is employees can walk out at any time without retribution

however, at will doesn't give employers free reign to discriminate, harrass, etc - those actions tend to be illegal and a violation of employee rights (union or not)

[cap1717]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

that is 100% false as well

you do realize that there are federal laws against things like discrimination, right?

it's not like an AZ employer can legally go "you're black, you're fired" - or "you smell bad, I refuse to give you an employment application"

I believe that you are the one that has that wrong! I am a "manager" (although admittedly, not a very influencial one) in an Arizona Business. Our employee manual states that "as Arizona is a "right to work" state, an individual can be "let go" at any time for any reason or for no reason. Also, of course, an employee can "quit" at any time, for any reason or for no reason. . . .guess how often that happens? Guess how often the "let go" thing happens? I can see NO benefit to the employee from "right to work" status. The employer, on the other had, has considerable flexibility to do as he or she wishes. Yes, state minimum wage must be paid. Arizona had NO LAWS regulating work relationships, other than the state minimum wage. If you don't believe me, do a search for AZ Work laws!

[cap1717]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Right to work has nothing to do with the things you mention. It means, and only means, that an employee can not be required to join a union either before or after being hired. Nothing else. The practical effect of the law, though, is that unions have a hard time gaining any traction in right-to-work states. As a consequence, workers do not enjoy the protections they might have with a union standing between them and the employer.

In fact, workers in "right to work" states, have no job security at all. If the employeer can find someone to do your job for less than you earn, he can "let you go" without giving any reason at all. . . .State minimum wage laws do apply, that is all!

[Finger Laker]

I manage a group that write employment practices liability insurance - i see claims in AZ - trust me when I say that if there were no laws applicable to the state of AZ there would be no claims

I would imagine your header for an "individual can be let go at any time" would be under the heading - employment at will

Most good companies will disclose that employment is on an at-will basis during the application process and affirm it again in the handbook

at will has absolutely nothing to do with right to work - let google be your guide and read the wiki

AZ even has a public policy exception to at will employment and to go further they also have a convenant of good faith and fair dealing as an at will emloyment exception

by the way here is a link to some AZ laws that pertain to employment - these are the AZ Revised Statutes

Arizona Revised Statutes

[Huckleberry3911948]

call the union steward no?. just when did we decide corporations and government would treat us fairly if we did a good job.
and that unions were unnecessary. a lil off topic illegal immigration, bad working conditions and firing without just cause are all labor issues.

[sindey]

Originally Posted by w1ngzer0

I just wanted to know who this benefits other then businesses? I just watched a guy get fired today, they refused to let him get his items from his desk and treated him like dirt. He wasn't yelling or anything, he only wanted to get his things and leave. Management started circling him and mr tough guy started yelling at him, im confused. Why not just watch the man get his stuff?

If i showed you the condition of this place you would puke.

I've seen this all too often in Arizona, where the employer can get away with paying dirt and treating others like dirt.

I totally agree with you.
When I first moved here and began working in AZ I was shocked at the treatment allowed to go on here in this "right to work" state.
You have the right to work alright, and thats about it.

I can't believe they can fire you without giving you a reason. I have worked for some "bosses" who are absolutly horrible and don't even know what the heck they are doing because they are someones friend or relative.

[Finger Laker]

sidney - nepotism happens everywhere - i'd also be interested in hearing what states you worked in where they couldn't fire people on an at will basis

[Hotinthecity]

UM, CA is NOT a right to work state!
And as the thread says --- employers out here do treat employees like crap.
I have yet to find a decent environment where the Office Manager isn't talking crap behind employees backs. It starts at the top folks and trickles down.

[Hotinthecity]

"Another thought that always gets to me is when someone states how low the pay is or how bad the conditions are. If you don't like it get out. If you aren't making the money you feel you are worth go elsewhere. Some of us decided that flipping burgers would not pay the bills and we decided to go to school, learn a trade or do something that would provide an economic incentive to work."

getting out isn't so easy when you own a home and the market has plunged!
Some of us have to deal with staying....for awhile anyway....some of us do HAVE college degrees and still getting paid crap out here. So.... get off the high horse.

[sindey]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

sidney - nepotism happens everywhere - i'd also be interested in hearing what states you worked in where they couldn't fire people on an at will basis

I do agree with you that nepotism can and does happen to a certain extent everywhere however, I have never experienced it so much as in AZ.
I worked in Pa and was a union member.