Right to work benefit's who? (bankruptcy, construction, schools)

[lildevil01]

I am originally from Upstate NY and I worked in a manufacutring plant for 20 yrs in a union. All I can say about Unoins is that I will NEVER work in one again I feel all they did is take my $$$$$ , I was a good worker and did my job, all they seemed to do was protect the lazy asses that didn`t do their work from gettin fired. I also lived in North Carolina for a yr and worked in a manufacturing plant I didnt think it was bad but we didn`t have much work. I have been in AZ for 3 yrs now and I manage a manufacturing plant here, We do the same work as I have done in NY for 20 yrs. I have fired a few people but I only did that due to the fact that they were not performing in their jobs. They were given both verbal and written warnings before termination how many chances do you give someone ? If you give them warnings and they don`t change seems like they don`t care about themselves or families or company they work for. I know my opinions with differ from others but these are just my feelings not trying to stir the pot one way or another .

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

California is NOT a right to work state.

your right again Ponderosa. I was getting right to work confused with "At will employment". But then I have never worked for or wanted to work for a union employer. Sorry for the confusion on that.

[blisterpeanuts]

We here in the U.S. have what's called employee-at-will, something that is almost unknown today in much of Europe, where employees basically can't be fired. It's very easy to fire someone in the U.S., and by the same token it's very easy to quit a job. Probably for this one single reason, in many parts of Europe the unemployment rate is over 10% while it's under 5% in most of the U.S.

In my opinion, unions have undermined the economy and have blocked innovation. That's why the unionized states (the non-"right to work" states) have lost all their industries. The Northeast used to be the most industrial place in the entire world--they made most of the steel, most of the heavy machinery, the cars and trucks, trains, sewing machines, electronics--you name it. All gone now. And what do they say in the Northeast? Business is bad. Unions are good. It's like a religion with them; I knew many of them in Massachusetts. It's pathetic. It's like the drunk who's too far gone to stop drinking and clean himself up. In Massachusetts, they used to make shoes and clothing--lots of it. They used to make sophisticated machinery. It's almost all gone now, and the local intellectual elite still chant the union mantra--in unions we are strong. You almost never hear anyone there say--"We should encourage more manufacturing". They should just float off into the ocean, in my opinion.

In Arizona they still talk about encouraging manufacturing. Unfortunately, the price we have to pay is the ugly side of free enterprise--the arbitrary firings, the tough work environment, the produce-or-leave mentality. Yet, without that freedom to be tough on employees, the good companies never get a chance to survive. The history of this country has never been about "good jobs". It's always been about "bad jobs" that encourage people to split off and start their own companies--I'm sick of working for these jerks and I can do it better on my own. These mavericks are the ones who have started many if not all of our great companies. This continues to be the case today, except that of course the factories they open are in China instead of Massachusetts or Pennsylvania or New York City.

The losers in this game are the young high school graduates, the ones who are not destined to go to college but would have been great mechanics or line managers or quality control inspectors or welders or equipment operators, but instead are unemployed or under employed because all those jobs went overseas. Thank you unions. Yeah you brought us the weekend and minimum wage and wonderful benefits--but only for those lucky enough to find work.

Just my own opinions.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by Hotinthecity

"Another thought that always gets to me is when someone states how low the pay is or how bad the conditions are. If you don't like it get out. If you aren't making the money you feel you are worth go elsewhere. Some of us decided that flipping burgers would not pay the bills and we decided to go to school, learn a trade or do something that would provide an economic incentive to work."

getting out isn't so easy when you own a home and the market has plunged!
Some of us have to deal with staying....for awhile anyway....some of us do HAVE college degrees and still getting paid crap out here. So.... get off the high horse.

My thoughts are for the many that seem to only complain about a situation and do nothing to change it. I can understand being stuck in the mud for a while. Sorry for the situation that you and others are currently in. I applaud those that are looking at what they don't like and making the changes needed to put themselves in a better spot. Not to say that is a quick fix, it can take time. I spent the past seven years completing my MBA. It wasn't fun, but it was worth it. And now my current employer is paying me a lot of money to work for them. At the same time I am not working in Arizona at this time and only act as a casual observer. The commute isn't so bad for me but then my other car is an airplane.

[cap1717]

What seems to missing, in this discussion, is a really inclusive look at the benefits and dissadvantages of both Unions and "right to work" situations. As in most cases, either end of this spectrum can be, and is abused. I have always thought that "good" employment policy provides more "benefits" for both both employeer and employee than what is seen at either end of the specturm. Employeers need hard working, dedicated "fully onboard" employees, no matter what line of work is being discussed. Employees need fair wages that allow them to live a "median" lifestyle, in security and comfort, dependable and affordable health care, and a conviction of being truly valued by their employeers. Both Unions and "right to work" situations appear, in most cases, to set up barriers to real cooperation between employees and employeers. There may not be any "rules and regulations" that can actually correct this situation, as it seems, largely, to be driven by the goals of the Union or Employeer involved. I have worked for 2 businesses, in my lifetime, both in "right to work" Arizona, that truly believed in this type of cooperative relationship, and these were the two "best" (although remarkably, NOT the two highest paying) positions that I have ever had. I LOVED working for companies that truly believed in "doing the right thing", by both their employees and their customers. That was truly a gratifiying work experience, and going to work each day for these companies was a joy!

[MotleyCrew]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

California is NOT a right to work state.

Agreed. We moved from CA.

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

but call centers always have that tough kind of vibe to them where employee replacement cost is relatively low

Phoenix is full of them and i currently work for one. It really depends on what the company hires for managers.

[Lakeland Yankee]

Originally Posted by cap1717

In fact, workers in "right to work" states, have no job security at all. If the employeer can find someone to do your job for less than you earn, he can "let you go" without giving any reason at all. . . .State minimum wage laws do apply, that is all!

Agree 100%

Originally Posted by w1ngzer0

I just wanted to know who this benefits other then businesses? I just watched a guy get fired today, they refused to let him get his items from his desk and treated him like dirt. He wasn't yelling or anything, he only wanted to get his things and leave. Management started circling him and mr tough guy started yelling at him, im confused. Why not just watch the man get his stuff?

If i showed you the condition of this place you would puke.

I've seen this all too often in Arizona, where the employer can get away with paying dirt and treating others like dirt.

Unions benefit everyone. Here's a helpful link Right to Work for Less (http://www.aflcio.org/issues/legislativealert/stateissues/work/ - broken link).

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee

Agree 100%

then you are agreeing to a false principle as RTW and at-will are two completely different things

the sad thing is that you agreed that RTW = at will, despite reading this thread where it's already clearly pointed out that they are in fact different and that many states that are not right to work are at will

[Lakeland Yankee]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

then you are agreeing to a false principle as RTW and at-will are two completely different things

the sad thing is that you agreed that RTW = at will, despite reading this thread where it's already clearly pointed out that they are in fact different and that many states that are not right to work are at will

. I never said that "right to work" is the same as "at will" . Unions have less power to defend workers because of Right to Work laws thus allowing employers to get away with unfair firings. Follow the link, it explains it better................. "At will" is a whole different can of worms that I don't wish to open .