Is Phoenix livable without air conditioning? (Scottsdale, Tempe: electric bill, pool, activities)

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by elcajones

There is absolutely plenty of Grey water to do so with. These rocks people toss in their yards and call landscaping also contribute to the heat island effect. It drives me nuts that everything is brown and concrete. Beautify your cities AZ!

IMO, its a necessity in a parched land to have rocks instead of grass. Rock lawns here, while not attractive to some, save our precious water.

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

IMO, its a necessity in a parched land to have rocks instead of grass. Rock lawns here, while not attractive to some, save our precious water.

You miss my first line? Reclaimed water man, same stuff they use on the golf courses . There's plenty of that.

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Now that is an image for you. Millions of Minnesotans sitting around fires layered in animal furs. Oh, the air pollution. How long would those forests last? Nope, comfort aside, humans are far, far better adapted for heat than cold. Reality: few of us would last long without the technology that has made it possible for us to grow to such huge numbers on the earth.

I'm just saying it's more survivable than here. I didn't say it would be a pretty picture . When I lived in the SoCal Mountains we never used heater. The wood stove was almost too much on the 15-25 degree winter nights. Than again that is nothing like Minnesota cold.
Personally I am much more naturally adapted to cold and don't handle heat well at all (It's been 2 and a half years, hope I adapt one day ). OTOH right around that freezing mark is heaven. I can't disagree with your final line though. I'm wiling to bet Arizona's biggest city would be somewhere up north if it wasn't for cooling technologies like swamp coolers and AC.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Now that is an image for you. Millions of Minnesotans sitting around fires layered in animal furs. Oh, the air pollution. How long would those forests last? Nope, comfort aside, humans are far, far better adapted for heat than cold. Reality: few of us would last long without the technology that has made it possible for us to grow to such huge numbers on the earth.

Most major cities are located in cold climes. Its easier for humans to find ways to stay warm (clothing and fire) than it is to keep from overheating w/o a/c. If power went out in, say, Moscow in winter, theyre hardy, and would survive. If the power goes out here in summer? People would drop like flies. We had power outages (sometimes for 2-3 days in winter) in Chicago in the dead of winter and noone would die. We had a huge heat wave once and hundreds died.

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

We had power outages (sometimes for 2-3 days in winter) in Chicago in the dead of winter and noone would die.

Oh really? These frozen dead people like a word with you

26 Cook County cold deaths so far this winter - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Most major cities are located in cold climes. Its easier for humans to find ways to stay warm (clothing and fire) than it is to keep from overheating w/o a/c. If power went out in, say, Moscow in winter, theyre hardy, and would survive. If the power goes out here in summer? People would drop like flies. We had power outages (sometimes for 2-3 days in winter) in Chicago in the dead of winter and noone would die. We had a huge heat wave once and hundreds died.

That is just absurd. Without heat (even a fire) and protection from the elements you die in a cold climate in a matter of hours. People have lived in Arizona for hundreds of years before AC came along. There's quite a few who live here now that don't have ac or a cooler for that matter - the poor, people in the native American communities around the valley. Once again, human beings evolved in hot climates and are well-suited to survive without any supplemental cooling in Arizona. Go to Lake Pleasant next week when it's 115 and you will see people camped out in tents in the campgrounds sitting around in the shade drinking beer and having a good time. And these are your soft air-conditioned conditioned puff balls. It's very livable, actually. Shade and water. Shade and water.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Bungle

Oh really? These frozen dead people like a word with you

26 Cook County cold deaths so far this winter - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

I can almost guarantee those were homeless people. But if you want to chuck numbers, look at the 1995 Chicago heat wave, where over 700 people died from the heat. Why? They were mostly elderly folks who didnt have a/c.

Now, since the thread in which youre participating is titled "Is Phoenix livable without air conditioning?", and seeing how many more elderly people are in Phoenix than Chicago, a prolonged power outage here would result (Im guessing) in thousands upon thousands of deaths. Living without cooling aids in extreme heat is harder to deal with than no power in a freezing climate, where adding layers and/or starting a fire can be a life saver. Ive experienced it first hand. I was w/o power in Chicagoland for 2 nights. We lit a fire, and dressed warm. The temp in our place never got below 50 degrees. It was miserable to be sure, but doable. Our a/c died here in August 2013 and we lasted only a few hours. Our place got up to almost 90 degrees, so we packed up and went to the in-laws for the night until the a/c guy could get out to us the next day.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

I can almost guarantee those were homeless people. But if you want to chuck numbers, look at the 1995 Chicago heat wave, where over 700 people died from the heat. Why? They were mostly elderly folks who didnt have a/c.

Now, since the thread in which youre participating is titled "Is Phoenix livable without air conditioning?", and seeing how many more elderly people are in Phoenix than Chicago, a prolonged power outage here would result (Im guessing) in thousands upon thousands of deaths. Living without cooling aids in extreme heat is harder to deal with than no power in a freezing climate, where adding layers and/or starting a fire can be a life saver. Ive experienced it first hand. I was w/o power in Chicagoland for 2 nights. We lit a fire, and dressed warm. The temp in our place never got below 50 degrees. It was miserable to be sure, but doable. Our a/c died here in August 2013 and we lasted only a few hours. Our place got up to almost 90 degrees, so we packed up and went to the in-laws for the night until the a/c guy could get out to us the next day.

But you weren't going to die in 90 degrees even if you thought so with that soft mid-west underbelly. Many of the people in Sun City, too, live with their ac's near 90 because they can't afford the electric bill to go cooler. They are tougher than you are. I know, because I about die when we go to Grandma's sauna over there. She keeps it at 88 and wears a sweat shirt.

I'm with you on this part: I'd rather be wrapped up in the cold than hot. But I also freely admit that the heat is not likely to kill me without ac while the cold will easily without heat.

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Our a/c died here in August 2013 and we lasted only a few hours.

I'm sorry you're dead. R.I.P.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

That is just absurd. Without heat (even a fire) and protection from the elements you die in a cold climate in a matter of hours. People have lived in Arizona for hundreds of years before AC came along. There's quite a few who live here now that don't have ac or a cooler for that matter - the poor, people in the native American communities around the valley. Once again, human beings evolved in hot climates and are well-suited to survive without any supplemental cooling in Arizona. Go to Lake Pleasant next week when it's 115 and you will see people camped out in tents in the campgrounds sitting around in the shade drinking beer and having a good time. And these are your soft air-conditioned conditioned puff balls. It's very livable, actually. Shade and water. Shade and water.

Youre taking the essentials (fire, clothing, shelter) out of the equation. We're talking about if Phoenix is liveable w/o a/c. Id agree that it most likely is, if youre not an infant or elderly (same applies to cold climes). Every year it seems the numbers show more people die from heat in the modern world than cold. We're not talking about ancient civilizations, who we have NO information about how many perished from heat. Im sure plenty died from both cold and heat.