Is Phoenix livable without air conditioning? (Flagstaff, Prescott: moving, beach, getaway)

[JGMotorsport64]

I think Phoenix is perfectly livable given the proper building (which we didn't do).

There is a huge difference between ways you can construct homes to minimize heat and sunlight. Like Adobe, Mud Brick etc.

One day drive down to Tucson and just drive around Downtown Tucson and the surrounding areas. A few areas of buildings are over 150 years old, they way they are constructed minimizes the heat. People live in hotter climates all over the world.

I think we could, but Phoenix wouldn't exist like it does right now. It would have to be completely re done.

[UKWildcat1981]

Having lived in Israel and in Lebanon I believe dry heat is easier to deal with than hot and humid weather, I can't believe people say there is no difference, the Southern US climate is vasty different from the Southwest. Arizona can be 115 and no humidity and the South can be 99 and humid, I prefer the dry and hot climate but humidity while I don't like it I can tolerate it better than most. To answer the question I could but I am used to the climate for a Midwestern transplant that moved to Phoenix I couldn't recommend it.

[8to32characters]

Right before the advent of air conditioning, the Valley was home to less than 70,000 people. Currently, it's home to nearly 4.5 million people.

If you do the math, the short answer is no, Phoenix is not livable without air conditioning.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by 8to32characters

Right before the advent of air conditioning, the Valley was home to less than 70,000 people. Currently, it's home to nearly 4.5 million people.

If you do the math, the short answer is no, Phoenix is not livable without air conditioning.

Even so, Phoenix had cooler temperatures before the influx of so many people, especially the overnight lows. Lack of concrete & asphalt, as well as more grass lawns and lots of agriculture in the area many years ago contributed to why it actually cooled off significantly at night. Even during the hottest parts of the summer, early morning lows would drop to the 70s ... but now, the low temps barely drop below 90, especially in July & August.

So while air conditioning has made it more livable here, it's more difficult to tolerate the summers because it's scorching hot during the day, and not very comfortable at night. The best way to tolerate summer is to get out of Phoenix as much as possible and go to cooler climates ... of which there are quite a few in AZ, as well as the CA coastal areas.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Even so, Phoenix had cooler temperatures before the influx of so many people, especially the overnight lows. Lack of concrete & asphalt, as well as more grass lawns and lots of agriculture in the area many years ago contributed to why it actually cooled off significantly at night. Even during the hottest parts of the summer, early morning lows would drop to the 70s ... but now, the low temps barely drop below 90, especially in July & August.

So while air conditioning has made it more livable here, it's more difficult to tolerate the summers because it's scorching hot during the day, and not very comfortable at night. The best way to tolerate summer is to get out of Phoenix as much as possible and go to cooler climates ... of which there are quite a few in AZ, as well as the CA coastal areas.

I'm not sure that is a great option anymore either. I had the misfortune of having to wait until Saturday to go north this weekend. The traffic was awful. Bumper to bumper all the way up 17. Accidents and stress and lane-hogging motorcycles going ten under the whole time. And when you get where you're going you now find that 2 million other people got there first. Everything is overrun by the millions of people who have moved to Phoenix in the last couple decades. Going back into the inferno in even worse traffic after the weekend leaves you angry and exhausted as you prepare for another week of misery in the valley. You will find more peace in your own backyard and cooler temps from the AC. Really, it just sucks here, and there is no where to get away from it anymore.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I'm not sure that is a great option anymore either. I had the misfortune of having to wait until Saturday to go north this weekend. The traffic was awful. Bumper to bumper all the way up 17. Accidents and stress and lane-hogging motorcycles going ten under the whole time. And when you get where you're going you now find that 2 million other people got there first. Everything is overrun by the millions of people who have moved to Phoenix in the last couple decades. Going back into the inferno in even worse traffic after the weekend leaves you angry and exhausted as you prepare for another week of misery in the valley. You will find more peace in your own backyard and cooler temps from the AC. Really, it just sucks here, and there is no where to get away from it anymore.

hahaha

I tried going to Sedona last summer to get out of the heat for the weekend. Biggest. Mistake. Ever.

Traffic up 17 was awful. A truck actually burst into flames and shut down the highway for over an hour while they extinguished the fire and got the traffic going again. Driving into Sedona was absolutely maddening. The whole one road in, one road out thing is a joke. Throw in 10s of 1000s of visitors who dont know how to use a roundabout (which there are a ton in Sedona) and it was just one giant traffic jam all the way in and out of town, even at 8PM.

I deal with the summer heat by riding/hiking early when I can, or swimming at night. During the day I try not to get out as much as I can. So we basically wait all summer for the temps to cool down, and when they do, we get swamped with snowbirds who jam up our roads here in the Valley and clog up the attractions.

[bigbuglf]

Funny, sad and absolutely true Ponderosa and Big Cats! We won't even go out on 1-17 between the valley and Sunset Point on the weekends anymore unless we have no choice. It used to mostly be really bad on holiday weekends, but I swear the freeway is shutdown or majorly blocked every weekend now.

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by bigbuglf

Funny, sad and absolutely true Ponderosa and Big Cats! We won't even go out on 1-17 between the valley and Sunset Point on the weekends anymore unless we have no choice. It used to mostly be really bad on holiday weekends, but I swear the freeway is shutdown or majorly blocked every weekend now.

About 8 years ago Gov. Napolitano ordered the ADOT to do a study of alternatives to I-17 for the Phoenix-Flagstaff route. Does anyone know what came of that?

You could take 60 to 89 to Prescott, a longer trip but maybe not so long when compared to bumper-to-bumper on the 17. Then continue up 89 through Chino Valley to I-40, then east to Flag or wherever you're headed.

Maybe they should bite the bullet and turn 60/89 into another interstate, though it seems a shame to blight the desert with more super highways, and plus it would probably cost $30 billion what with all the hills and mountains to work around.

A rail between PHX and Flag has been suggested, but then of course you need a vehicle when you get off the train. Uber or Zipcar rentals at the terminal station might solve that.

Money, money, money. And people, people, people! If the population would stabilize then maybe these problems could be worked through, but as a growth state, AZ is probably doomed to suffer growing pains for decades to come.

I do hope they can work on solving the heat island effect in Maricopa County though. Didn't ASU engineers come up with a cool new porous asphalt that holds less solar heat? Replace a million square miles of asphalt with that stuff and it'll probably save billions in cooling costs, and bring the cool desert nights back.

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

A rail between PHX and Flag has been suggested, but then of course you need a vehicle when you get off the train. Uber or Zipcar rentals at the terminal station might solve that.

There is an Enterprise lot at the Flag station if I recall.

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

About 8 years ago Gov. Napolitano ordered the ADOT to do a study of alternatives to I-17 for the Phoenix-Flagstaff route. Does anyone know what came of that?

You could take 60 to 89 to Prescott, a longer trip but maybe not so long when compared to bumper-to-bumper on the 17. Then continue up 89 through Chino Valley to I-40, then east to Flag or wherever you're headed.

Maybe they should bite the bullet and turn 60/89 into another interstate, though it seems a shame to blight the desert with more super highways, and plus it would probably cost $30 billion what with all the hills and mountains to work around.

A rail between PHX and Flag has been suggested, but then of course you need a vehicle when you get off the train. Uber or Zipcar rentals at the terminal station might solve that.

Money, money, money. And people, people, people! If the population would stabilize then maybe these problems could be worked through, but as a growth state, AZ is probably doomed to suffer growing pains for decades to come.

I do hope they can work on solving the heat island effect in Maricopa County though. Didn't ASU engineers come up with a cool new porous asphalt that holds less solar heat? Replace a million square miles of asphalt with that stuff and it'll probably save billions in cooling costs, and bring the cool desert nights back.

I-17 (Loop 101 to I-40)

The literature review cites every recent study that has been conducted on the 17. It looks like ADOT's ultimate plan is to widen the entire freeway. Three lanes would be added northbound between BCC and Sunset Point. Two lanes would be added in the southbound direction of that same stretch. Two lanes wouls be added in each direction between Sunset Point and Cordes Junction. One lane between Cordes Junctiom and the Sedona turnoff. Two new lanes from the Sedona turnoff to the top of the hill and one lane in each direction to Flagstaff. The study projects that the city of Phoenix alone will grow to 2.1 million people by 2040, Prescott Valley will be at 63,000, and Flagstaff will be at almost 90,000, so these improvements are needed. Phoenix is only going to get hotter and more people will be trying to escape to the high country.