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As much as I disagree with Greatday on most of this topic, he's right. ICE (which wasn't created until after the Department of Homeland Security was created back in 2001/2002) deputized local agencies into combatting a national problem on a regional scale. Had Joe done what he's been doing since last year, say, back in the mid-1990s, there'd be huge outcry and comparisons to Bull Connor might've been legit.
I feel sorry for the officers. They have a dangerous job and a crazy boss (they have voted no confidence in him before). However, the economy is bad and they are going to have to buckle down and ride this one out like the rest of us...
Okay Enough of the Sheriff Joe idol worshiping. First, not all people who do not agree with Sheriff Joe's Policies are either "convicts" or "family of convicts" as previously stated by one of Joe's worshipers on a previous post (different blog page). Saying a comment like that would be like me saying that everyone who supported him believed that "the jews had it coming, too!", which actually maybe closer to the truth since any support for these "tent concentration camps" is typical of people who are full of hatred and ignorance. If ANYTHING, all of you who are real Americans would be horrified by the fact that this man (not god) gets away with disgusting treatment of human beings. I don't care if they committed a crime or not, they are still American citizens. I am a firm believer that punishment should not be fun, nor rewarding. There should not be college classes offered nor four course meals, but placing fellow Americans (yes believe it or not over 70% are actual citizens) in Tent City and risking another American's life (guilty or not) is against everything my grandfather, father, and myself fought for. We were not allowed to treat Iraqi prisoners this way in 1991, why are all of you so ready to jump in and allow this to happen to other Americans and human beings. NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK, HUMAN ABUSE IN ANY FORM IS ABUSE. Call it justice. Call it "what America needs more of..." Call it whatever your twisted little mind calls it that allows you to sleep at night, the simple fact is that it is both sick and wrong to treat ANY human being this way, especially since we are supposed to be America, a country who use to be known for opportunity and compassion! Those of you who think that Joe is right and support his treatment of other Americans are as un-American as the Nazis, Serbs, Imperial Japanese, Viet Cong, and others of their ilk that we fought against, believing in the basic rights of human beings, and stopping those who acted as Joe. Most people in Tent City are NOT predatory felons, and are not menaces to society, in fact most are people like you or me who did something completely reckless, stupid, or made a bad decision. Should they be rewarded? Definitely NOT! Should they be incarcerated...sure, but not abused. Right now DUI and Immigration are the main witch hunts, but I bet the lot of you would be singing a different tune if first time speed offenders recieved 1 day mandatory in tent city, and a speed interlock device for a year.Lt_DMcKinley Nov-4
, but placing fellow Americans (yes believe it or not over 70% are actual citizens) in Tent City and risking another American's life (guilty or not) is against everything my grandfather, father, and myself fought for. We were not allowed to treat Iraqi prisoners this way in 1991, why are all of you so ready to jump in and allow this to happen to other Americans and human beings. NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK, HUMAN ABUSE IN ANY FORM IS ABUSE. Call it justice. Call it "what America needs more of..." Call it whatever your twisted little mind calls it that allows you to sleep at night, the simple fact is that it is both sick and wrong to treat ANY human being this way, especially since we are supposed to be America, a country who use to be known for opportunity and compassion! Those of you who think that Joe is right and support his treatment of other Americans are as un-American as the Nazis, Serbs, Imperial Japanese, Viet Cong, and others of their ilk that we fought against, believing in the basic rights of human beings, and stopping those who acted as Joe. Most people in Tent City are NOT predatory felons, and are not menaces to society, in fact most are people like you or me who did something completely reckless, stupid, or made a bad decision. Should they be rewarded? Definitely NOT! Should they be incarcerated...sure, but not abused. Right now DUI and Immigration are the main witch hunts, but I bet the lot of you would be singing a different tune if first time speed offenders recieved 1 day mandatory in tent city, and a speed interlock device for a year.Lt_DMcKinley Nov-4
Let me assure you that MANY of our Nations Finest - our brave men and women in uniform, don't have the luxury of even a tent tonight to sleep under - they are in the open - cold and hungry.
BTW - a convicted person, Charles Barkley, will be sleeping in Tent City soon.
That's easy: He was yelling and screaming about the problem - but, was not allowed to do anything about it.
So, Joe Arpaio, decided the hell with it - got his Deputies trained and sworn as Federal officers so he COULD do something about it. AND, if you are honest, you will remember that the Board of Supervisors and the then Governor went NUTS when he did this - tried to pull his funding etc.
But what happened? Joe became the lightening rod - not only in the valley, but across the nation.
Other law enforcement agencies - including Phoenix PD, Tempe, Glendale, AZDPS, Tucson PD, Pima County Sheriff, Coconino Cty Sheriff has or is, had their officers go through the same program and their officers are being Federally sworn
Oh, all except Mesa PD: Their police chief want Mesa to be a "sanctuary city" just like Mayor Gordon wanted for Phoenix - until 3 Phoenix PD officers were killed by Illegals. Any hope Gordon HAD for higher office has vanished
So Joe has taken the LEAD in fighting the problem
And, as I said, if you are HONEST, you will acknowledge this
So by him deputizing more officers, that automatically translates to him taking the lead on fighting illegal immigration? Have you had the opportunity to speak with police officers in the valley regarding Sheriff Joe? I have had the opportunity to speak with officers from all over the valley not just Mesa. None of the ones I spoke to have had positive things to say about Sheriff Joe. And their criticism doesn't rest on his behavior which is what he is typically criticized for. Rather, they criticize him for his lack of action. They say he deliberately avoids enforcing the law in the more rural areas and desolate areas outside the urban areas of the county because it is more difficult and dangerous although this area is where his actions are needed most.
I'm not saying this is a scientific poll and I'm sure there are many officers who endorse him. If you know of any or had a chance to speak to them, I would like you to share what they have said because I really haven't totally made up my mind regarding the Sheriff and I would like to hear what you may have heard. With the kidnappings and the violence that is about to escalate in Phoenix from the Mexican Cartel, I would like someone who is aggressive in pursuing this. However, I don't really want to endorse a charlatan either and someone who is just a great sound byte. Unfortunately, it seems like there is increasing evidence to support the idea that he is more passionate about his fame than fighting illegal immigration.
So by him deputizing more officers, that automatically translates to him taking the lead on fighting illegal immigration?
Actually, yes, it does.
ICE / Feds were not doing anything. And, the Sheriff was told that inasmuch as illegal immigration is/was a "Federal" issue, he, the Sheriff, and other local law enforcement, could not inquire into immigration status, or take into custody, those here illegally.
Hence why the Sheriff was the first to have his officers Federally Sworn to allow them to take action against illegal immigrants. And, it literally forced other agencies in the State to review their policies as well.
If ANYTHING, all of you who are real Americans would be horrified by the fact that this man (not god) gets away with disgusting treatment of human beings. I don't care if they committed a crime or not, they are still American citizens. I am a firm believer that punishment should not be fun, nor rewarding. There should not be college classes offered nor four course meals, but placing fellow Americans (yes believe it or not over 70% are actual citizens) in Tent City and risking another American's life (guilty or not) is against everything my grandfather, father, and myself fought for. We were not allowed to treat Iraqi prisoners this way in 1991, why are all of you so ready to jump in and allow this to happen to other Americans and human beings. NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK, HUMAN ABUSE IN ANY FORM IS ABUSE.
This can easily be turned around to read: when a human being turns to a life of crime and abuses other humans, there needs to be justice to equal how the criminal treated his victim(s). I'm a strong believer in an eye for an eye, which is why the punishment should always fit the crime. Too often in our society, we give convicted criminals a mere slap on the hand and then set them free. Sheriff Joe isn't perfect, and I don't always agree with him either, but I applaud him and those like him who have the guts to actually do something about the criminal element. He doesn't make the laws ... he is enforcing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKinley2009
Call it justice. Call it "what America needs more of..." Call it whatever your twisted little mind calls it that allows you to sleep at night, the simple fact is that it is both sick and wrong to treat ANY human being this way, especially since we are supposed to be America, a country who use to be known for opportunity and compassion!
You apparently lack knowledge in American history if you think we USED to be a country of compassion. Many such occurrences over the past few centuries would prove otherwise. The Salem witch hunts & slavery were two examples of brutal historical events that were far worse than what ol' Joe is doing. Don't forget all the brutality found in the history books that the notorious criminal element has committed.
You're partially correct about how wrong it is to abuse other human beings. However, again I emphasize that when another human commits a crime and abuses his fellow human beings in the process, that's when harsh punishment is the answer (which you would likely call "abuse", but in reality, it's justice).
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKinley2009
Most people in Tent City are NOT predatory felons, and are not menaces to society, in fact most are people like you or me who did something completely reckless, stupid, or made a bad decision. Should they be rewarded? Definitely NOT! Should they be incarcerated...sure, but not abused.
What's your definition of "abuse"? Sheriff Joe isn't abusing anybody. He's simply incarcerating the lawbreakers and making them pay for what they did. His methods are certainly more effective than probation or rehabilitation, which is what many such convicts receive otherwise, and those methods seldom work. Arpaio is not out to make incarceration enjoyable ... in fact, he rightfully wants it to be harsh so that people WON'T return to Tent City.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McKinley2009
Right now DUI and Immigration are the main witch hunts, but I bet the lot of you would be singing a different tune if first time speed offenders recieved 1 day mandatory in tent city, and a speed interlock device for a year.Lt_DMcKinley Nov-4
Illegal immigrants are breaking the law simply by living here ... but they commit other crimes such as ID theft, robbery, kidnapping, etc. Even the ones who are over here working odd jobs & not in trouble with the law are straining our hospitals & public assistance programs with their lack of insurance and multitudes of kids (which they can't begin to afford). You bet illegals are being targeted, and rightfully so. They are a huge burden to taxpayers!
DUI is a serious offense, and it's one of the leading causes of traffic fatalities. Many people like to think speed is serious and a cause of accidents, which is a popular misconception. Speed is only a problem if the driver is impaired or inattentive ... and for that matter, slow driving is just as much of a problem when impaired or inattentive.
I guess the only advice I can offer at this point is that if you dislike Arpaio that much, then cast your vote against him in the next election. As you have likely guessed, the majority of voters are satisfied with Joe's methods of law enforcement. If his tactics were truly similar to Nazis, Serbs, and the others you mentioned, he wouldn't have lasted this long as Sheriff.
I guess the only advice I can offer at this point is that if you dislike Arpaio that much, then cast your vote against him in the next election. As you have likely guessed, the majority of voters are satisfied with Joe's methods of law enforcement. If his tactics were truly similar to Nazis, Serbs, and the others you mentioned, he wouldn't have lasted this long as Sheriff.
Or more like there hasn't been anyone worthwhile to challenge him. I mean look at the last candidate, Dan Saban had so many skeletons in his closet and he gave Sherriff Joe a run for his money. Sheriff Joe used to dominate elections. That's no longer the case. It's pretty obvious he is becoming less popular although he still holds the majority. The statistics clearly show that. He is ultimately going to lose. It's only a matter of time.
ICE / Feds were not doing anything. And, the Sheriff was told that inasmuch as illegal immigration is/was a "Federal" issue, he, the Sheriff, and other local law enforcement, could not inquire into immigration status, or take into custody, those here illegally.
Hence why the Sheriff was the first to have his officers Federally Sworn to allow them to take action against illegal immigrants. And, it literally forced other agencies in the State to review their policies as well.
That is "taking the lead".
No I understood all of that but what I wanted you to provide me with was statistics showing how those deputies have decreased crime caused by illegals and how those efforts led to decreased crime in general in this county. Honestly, the poor economy has probably done more than Sheriff Joe in reducing crime since many illegals moved back to Mexico on their own efforts in this past year.
- Homicides in the county(Maricopa) were up 167 percent in the three-year period ending in 2007
- The budget for the Sheriff department, excluding corrections, had doubled since 2001 despite the increased number of homicides in the county.
- By his (Arpaio's) own accounting, 117 people have died in his custody, including many with serious mental health problems.
- The county (Maricopa) has paid out over $30 million in the last five years to settle legal claims from prisoners.
- Maricopa County has many times more federal prison condition lawsuits than New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago and Houston combined.
- In September of last year (2008), the National Commission on Correctional Health Care revoked its accreditation of the jails Sheriff Arpaio runs on the grounds of failure to provide adequate health care for inmates.
-In October, a federal judge ruled that Sheriff Arpaio’s department had violated the Constitution by depriving inmates of medical care, fed them unhealthy food and housed them in unsanitary conditions.
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