Oh Gilbert, how you disappoint.. (Mesa, Chandler: crimes, houses, private school)

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

That's a pretty vague reason. Explain exactly how that would lead to lawsuits and other issues? If a person files for a permit then he or she would be held responsible for any damages so it would be a deterrant if anything to cause damage. I don't really buy that reason because this is a common practice in many cities to allow permits for similar venues. If it was indeed a practice that envoked several lawsuits and "debates", I fail to see why these cities would incur this. That reason doesn't make sense. I'm sorry Captain Bill but I know you are too intelligent for me to think you genuinely believe their decision was based solely on matters outside of religious convictions.

I don't know how, why, or when the decision was made, and I don't think the decision was made solely on religious convictions, or on contemplating potential law suits.

As we can see, there are plenty of people on the thread who are not Mormons, and are of varying age groups, who do consume alcohol to some degree, and who are happy about the no drinking in the public park policy. I'm not Mormon, but I do hold to many conservative values.

In this litigious society, people can sue for any reason, frivolous or not. They may end up paying the other party's legal fees, but they can still sue.

If a city allows exceptions, so that only certain groups are allowed permits, then how do they set the rule for which groups?

If it is limited to weddings only, then what happens if a minority group wants to have a 50th wedding aniversity, and is turned down? That can open the doors to a law suit for descrimination against a race, nationality, and or a religion, and for unfair practice of allowing weddings, but not anniverseries of weddings.

Or perhaps someone is already married, and wants to renew their vows? They will be turned down, and could sue.

Back to the limited to weddings only, what if a 13 year old minor at a wedding gets hold of a bottle of liquor, drinks it and dies? Who is the parent going to sue? Naturally they will start with the deep pockets, which is the city. Then they name everyone else involved, including the park rangers, wedding host, the bride and groom, and the bartending company, if there is one.

What about other groups and large clubs who would want to have parties with alcohol in the park. I can picture a large influential group that has a couple of attorneys as members, who would love to file a law suit, pro-bono on behalf of that group, for the sole purpose of getting their face on TV while fighting the city.

The list can go on and on of potential law suits.

As far as debates, many groups who are not part of the exception, after being refused a permit, can go to the city council meetings and complain.

Here's an article about refusal of an alcohol permit for a jazz festival in North Beach's Washington Square Park, in San Francisco.

BeyondChron: San Francisco's Alternative Online Daily News » North Beach Jazz Festival Battles with Rec/Park Commission

Another one on the Bay to Breakers race in San Francisco.

I love SF and much of the liberal culturer there. However, things get out of hand at times, and people tend to get tired of the "anything goes" mentality, and the mess that is created by allowing certain things to happen.

Bay to Breakers race organizers say they’re only enforcing the law in implementing bans on alcohol, nudity « CALIFORNIA BEAT (http://californiabeat.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/bay-to-breakers-race-organizers-say-theyre-only-enforcing-the-law-in-implementing-bans-on-alcohol-nudity/ - broken link)

In Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, there are certain picnic areas where alcohol is not allowed. http://www.parks.sfgov.org/wcm_recpark/PAR/GGP_picnicarea.pdf

The reference to San Francisco is just to point out that even a very liberal city can and will prohibit the consumption of alcohol in public parks. So these decisions are not entirely based on religious beliefs.

[observer53]

Again, no one is saying it is solely a religious-based decision-- but to say religion has no influence on such govermental decisions in Gilbert is disingenuous.

And, anyone can name anyone in a lawsuit. You can get OUT of such a suit quickly if you have no legal responsibility.

The events in SF are in a different class, as they would be here. "Special event permits" in the cities that do allow alcohol in parks with a permit, have more stringent requirements, including a large amount of insurance.

It makes no sense to assume that the city councils in all the other cities that allow permits did so without considering all the issues such as those brought up here, including financial liability to the city, which, if it existed, would be far larger in dollars than the income from permits.

Gilbert made its decision, the other cities made theirs. If most everyone is happy with whichever decision their city made, that's really all there is to say.

[ArizonaBear]

One thing that people tend to forget is that liquor consumption is becoming more and more a lower class habit.

Think about it: each year it seems; the DUI laws (to quote an obvious example) are becoming tougher and tougher.

[ibarrio]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

One thing that people tend to forget is that liquor consumption is becoming more and more a lower class habit.

Think about it: each year it seems; the DUI laws (to quote an obvious example) are becoming tougher and tougher.

tell that to Charles Barkley...

Wait, your high class and have more money...

Hmm...and all those bars in Scottsdale and Tempe...

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

One thing that people tend to forget is that liquor consumption is becoming more and more a lower class habit.

Think about it: each year it seems; the DUI laws (to quote an obvious example) are becoming tougher and tougher.

I'm not buying that. Smoking maybe, but drinking (and driving) cuts across every class. Smoking is now considered uncouth but drinking is still cool. I haven't heard of any tony bars closing. It's THE thing to do for fun at all ages and incomes. The laws nab a lot of .08 social drinkers but they are not the problem. The .20+ people who kill are alcoholics and no law is going to stop them.

[AZ Tracy]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I drink on average 3 or 4 glasses of wine for dinner during a week. So I am not opposed to alcohol.

Bill - you really should have more for dinner than just wine!

[Captain Bill]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill
I drink on average 3 or 4 glasses of wine for dinner during a week. So I am not opposed to alcohol.

Originally Posted by AZ Tracy

Bill - you really should have more for dinner than just wine!

Why, there are nutrients in those grapes.

I see, the way I wrote it sounds like I have 3-4 glasses each night. (Maybe in my younger years.)

Today it's an average of 3-4 glasses of wine per week, and it's with dinner.

But today we had a couple glasses of champagne for brunch at the Top of the Rock.

[sheena]

Originally Posted by azcater

Back to some of the religious comments.. I'm having a hard time understanding how caffeine free products scream religious control.. I always saw it as a benefit.. hey I can have coke at night and not have it keep me up. Also, being told I can't have alcohol in a public park didn't scream "the mormons are controlling everything" just that Town of Gilbert decided they didn't want the hassle and liability of alcohol in the parks.

I've lived here for a while now and I just don't understand the whole Gilbert is so religious debate. Maybe I live in my own little bubble or the mormons haven't gotten to me yet. Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;-)

I have to agree the people that keep bashing Gilbert don't have to live here. I've been here for years and I'm not a Mormon and like I said I drink.

[Bob's Burgers]

Faith, hope and love, not self-centeredness or self-indulgance...give me God.

[Mish12190]

Oh no, why do you hate Gilbert? We are looking at relocating from OHIO and Gilbert was at the top of the list! We are a family of 5 with three elementary age children. We are in our late 30's and a very social family looking for a great neigboorhood and community with, of course, great schools. I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.