Light Rail (Phoenix, Mesa, Tempe: 2013, unemployment, landscaping)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by roosevelt

How about today's Light-rail extension planned for 19th Ave. delayed until 2014 Arizona Republic headline?

Also in response to another post, I am not a troll!

I saw that. Finally, there's some partial corroboration of your post from a while back. It's partial because the Republic is reporting a delay rather than an abandonment of the extension. This in no way proves light rail a failure. Light rail continues to draw higher than expected passenger loads. Instead, there are two failures at work here:

1) The overall failure of the economy, resulting in diminished tax revenues. As City officials looks at dwindling tax revenues, they have no choice but to delay certain projects, including this one.

2) The tactical failure of the City of Phoenix in trying to go it alone on the 3.2 mile extension without federal funding. Seeking federal funds would have delayed the project due to the necessary studies, but it turns out the project will be equally delayed by the bad economy.

[synapse]

Originally Posted by roosevelt

How about today's Light-rail extension planned for 19th Ave. delayed until 2014 Arizona Republic headline?

Also in response to another post, I am not a troll!

Unfortunate, but not a surprise. The economy is bad, it's just par for the course. Considering how much development is happening downtown and the success of light rail so far, it's a temporary setback. When the economy improves, the need will still be there and it'll get built.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by silverbear

This in no way proves light rail a failure. Light rail continues to draw higher than expected passenger loads. Instead, there are two failures at work here:

1) The overall failure of the economy, resulting in diminished tax revenues. As City officials looks at dwindling tax revenues, they have no choice but to delay certain projects, including this one.

I have to disagree for the most part. While it's true that the economy isn't the best right now, it's not as bad as what many politicians and media folks are claiming. I frequent many restaurants & shopping centers, especially on weekends, and see places CROWDED with customers ... and I'm not just referring to places like Target or McDonalds. Many of the more upscale places are bustling with crowds.

With that said, I am really fed up with the poor economy being used as a scapegoat for why projects can't be completed in a timely manner. We went through this exact scenario with ADOT and the freeways. You might recall that 231 miles of freeways were promised ... but ADOT squandered the funds they received, so they blamed the economy at the time as well, and left us with a scaled back system.

Originally Posted by silverbear

2) The tactical failure of the City of Phoenix in trying to go it alone on the 3.2 mile extension without federal funding. Seeking federal funds would have delayed the project due to the necessary studies, but it turns out the project will be equally delayed by the bad economy.

Now I hope you realize why I favor privatization. Every time a government agency becomes involved in something, the more costly & inefficient it becomes. No amount of federal involvement would have helped matters. Las Vegas has an efficient monorail transit system, and it was built completely with private dollars in just a few years' time ... no extensive delays or excuses like what we continuously hear from government officials.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I have to disagree for the most part. While it's true that the economy isn't the best right now, it's not as bad as what many politicians and media folks are claiming. I frequent many restaurants & shopping centers, especially on weekends, and see places CROWDED with customers ... and I'm not just referring to places like Target or McDonalds. Many of the more upscale places are bustling with crowds.

With that said, I am really fed up with the poor economy being used as a scapegoat for why projects can't be completed in a timely manner. We went through this exact scenario with ADOT and the freeways. You might recall that 231 miles of freeways were promised ... but ADOT squandered the funds they received, so they blamed the economy at the time as well, and left us with a scaled back system.



Now I hope you realize why I favor privatization. Every time a government agency becomes involved in something, the more costly & inefficient it becomes. No amount of federal involvement would have helped matters. Las Vegas has an efficient monorail transit system, and it was built completely with private dollars in just a few years' time ... no extensive delays or excuses like what we continuously hear from government officials.

Your impressions when visiting shopping centers and restaurants are just that -- impressions. Look at actual data regarding sales tax revenues and you'll see scary trends that are forcing cutbacks across the board. Even if a restaurant is still crowded, if the customers order beer instead of wine or skip dessert, it's enough to hurt sales tax collections and put places out of business. Remember that most restaurants and retail operate on razor-thin margins.

As for the LV monorail, that project is proof of why privatization is often a bad idea in transportation. Private investors are often seduced by sexy, glamorous schemes without the necessary reality checks imposed by publicly financed transit projects. The LV monorail is not at all efficient. It runs behind the casinos out of sight to most visitors, has been shut down for months at a time, has failed to meet its ridership goals, and is too expensive for the daily commuting needs of most workers. As I've said a million times before, monorails are appropriate only for zoos, theme parks, and other specialized environments. They are generally a poor solution for urban transit needs due to an extraordinarily high ratio of costs to passenger capacity. The City of Phoenix made a mistake in trying to go it alone on the Northwest Extension of light rail, but it's a minor error compared to the folly of the LV monorail.

The poster child for privatization is now seeking a taxpayer bailout:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009...holl-pay-ride/

[Randomuser2349]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Anyone who claims it should have been elevated or underground forfeits any right to complain about cost. Building above ground generally costs 5X per mile more than light rail. Building underground generally costs 10X more. As for AC, can you imagine the cost of cooling underground stations? The shade the at light rail stations is actually pretty good, and I've seen no downturn in passenger loads with the onset of 100-degree temperatures. As for taking up lanes used by cars, light rail runs for the most part on underutilized streets like Washington and Apache. I've yet to see or hear about increased traffic congestion along the light rail route. With all these factors in mind, heavy rail is more appropriate for high-density cities in the East and Midwest. Most cities in the Sunbelt have chosen light rail as a more appropriate technology for places of medium density. Remember, Phoenix's peer cities are not New York and Chicago. Instead, Phoenix should be compared to cities such as Minneapolis, Denver, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, San Diego, and Seattle. Those cities are fairly close to Phoenix in terms of population and density, and they've also chosen light rail.

But Minneapolis, Dallas, Seattle and San Diego have one underground station. All with smaller populations than Phoenix.

[joninaz]

I'd be interested to know:

- how many bus lines there are versus light rail routes?
- what percentage of daily public transit users use light rail versus buses?
- what's the daily ridership of buses versus light rail?
- what percentage of the public transit budget does light rail use versus other methods?
- what are the unique annual costs to Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa to support light rail in their markets?
Thanks!

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by joninaz

I'd be interested to know:

- how many bus lines there are versus light rail routes?
- what percentage of daily public transit users use light rail versus buses?
- what's the daily ridership of buses versus light rail?
- what percentage of the public transit budget does light rail use versus other methods?
- what are the unique annual costs to Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa to support light rail in their markets?
Thanks!

You know, if you contact Valley Metro, you could probably get all the information you want. Or, check their website. Perhaps doing a google search would get you started.

[fcorrales80]

Or go on to various transit blogs as that information will be enthusiastically conversed on between individuals on those sites. Maybe even ASU's blogs since many other students will be interesting in public policy and transportation issues as well.

[Design7]

I think the Phoenix Metro Light Rail Stations are unappreciated for the design tour-de-force they are. After seeing light rail systems in alot of cities (which are typically ugly, purely functional boxes) Phoenix's system really stands out for its aesthetics. It is a visually beautiful system with a Buck Rogers meets Metropolis space-age style that really compliments the city. The stations are works of urban art in themselves. The city should boast more about that and make it an icon of the city in much the way that San Francisco is symbolized by its cable cars. The Light Rail is one of the coolest features of this city and something that Phoenix should be proud of! Take it from someone who uses the NYC subway system . . . you've got something really special!

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Design7

I think the Phoenix Metro Light Rail Stations are unappreciated for the design tour-de-force they are. After seeing light rail systems in alot of cities (which are typically ugly, purely functional boxes) Phoenix's system really stands out for its aesthetics. It is a visually beautiful system with a Buck Rogers meets Metropolis space-age style that really compliments the city. The stations are works of urban art in themselves. The city should boast more about that and make it an icon of the city in much the way that San Francisco is symbolized by its cable cars. The Light Rail is one of the coolest features of this city and something that Phoenix should be proud of! Take it from someone who uses the NYC subway system . . . you've got something really special!

Phoenix's light rail is a new system and will take some time to be recognized nationally.

I am very proud of it, they did a marvelous job in designing and planning. I think it's one of the best systems in the country.