Is the illegal immigration getting better? (casino, camps, wages)

[cmist]

Originally Posted by Scots Boab

Very interesting thread with some great opinions put forth.
If i could ass my piece as someone who is looking in,here in the UK we have the very same problem with immigration.
People see the UK as a place to make their fortune,trouble is the majority who come to our shores do so illegally which is where the problems really start.
First of all they will work for a cheaper salary and ignore any workers rights or health and safety,which the employers love and lap up.
In turn the wage structure has shrunk somewhat and we the British people are expected to work in the same conditions with less pay,if we don't then the illegal will step in and do it instead.
On top of that the vast majority of them send their money back home to their own country so the money they earn doesn't stay within the UK and businesses and the economy suffers.
All the while the unemployment figure for British workers goes through the roof.
Now here is the twist.
When caught they will always claim and play the racial card!!
Then to cap it all you have do gooders who back them and the government bows down to them and we the people suffer!
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone wanting to emigrate to another country(i myself is trying to get to the US)
as long as it is legal and the proper channels are followed.
Now illegal immigration i do have a problem with!
For a start without sounding like scaremongering,in these changed days where terrorism is rife,wouldn't you want to know who is living next to you?

I think this is a great post on the subject because the topic is "IMMIGRATION" and it puts a whole new twist on it when you get a Scottish person in the mix. Immigration isn't only Mexico to US, its when ANYONE from ANY other country wants to move here. I don't see many other countries complaining that there are rules to follow.

Here is a person who came onto the board seeking advice and knowledge on how he can move to our country legally. How many Mexicans try to understand what has to be done to legally immigrate? Our neighbors to the south are trying to skirt the system rather than work within it as someone like the poster above is doing.

I'm torn on the issue though, because I sympathize with the hard working illegals whose only motivation is to flee north to make a living for their families since their own country has failed them. I'm a little disappointed that the US isn't trying to foster relationships closer to home that could benefit us.

Perhaps the money we are spending overseas and half a globe away would be better spent helping our immediate neighbors prosper instead. This would not only improve our relationship, but would also cut right to the source of illegal immigration. The problem needs to be addressed as a nation, and AZ can't be expected to control the deeper issues that cause illegals to flow from the south.

[Scots Boab]

Originally Posted by cmist

I think this is a great post on the subject because the topic is "IMMIGRATION" and it puts a whole new twist on it when you get a Scottish person in the mix. Immigration isn't only Mexico to US, its when ANYONE from ANY other country wants to move here. I don't see many other countries complaining that there are rules to follow.

Here is a person who came onto the board seeking advice and knowledge on how he can move to our country legally. How many Mexicans try to understand what has to be done to legally immigrate? Our neighbors to the south are trying to skirt the system rather than work within it as someone like the poster above is doing.

I'm torn on the issue though, because I sympathize with the hard working illegals whose only motivation is to flee north to make a living for their families since their own country has failed them. I'm a little disappointed that the US isn't trying to foster relationships closer to home that could benefit us.

Perhaps the money we are spending overseas and half a globe away would be better spent helping our immediate neighbors prosper instead. This would not only improve our relationship, but would also cut right to the source of illegal immigration. The problem needs to be addressed as a nation, and AZ can't be expected to control the deeper issues that cause illegals to flow from the south.

I would never complain because even although the immigration system that is in place is quite complicated i do believe it is so to protect the American people and their livlihoods and that is the way it should be!
Personnally i have skills that probably sets me apart in my trade from most Americans but for me the challenge is to come here and pass them on and hopefully help others benifit in the long run.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Steerpike

I really doubt most Mexicans alive today feel strongly one way or another about what happened 150 years ago... they are economically challenged and have bigger things to worry about.


I think there are two tiny details being overlooked here;
1) the Marshal plan , whereby we gave billions to Germany to help them recover (imagine the outcry if we tried to help Mexico in this manner today!) and
2) Germany was an economic powerhouse before the war and already had much of the infrastructure and natural resources.

The truth is, many illegals in this country are doing jobs that locals simply would not do. The California agricultural industry would not survive without them, and Republican governor Schwartzenegger concedes this.

Marshal Plan: ca. 2-3 billion US dollars
Reparations: $10 billion dollars

You do the math.

German Economic Miracle: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

As for the infrastructure; well, Germany lost ca. 30% during/after WW II.

As for Calif's Ag industry; if unemployment were to disappear forcing Americans to work and farmers AKA corporations were willing to pay higher $$$----------bye bye labor shortage. Besides: only about 2-3% of all illegals in recent years were involved in agriculture----------which leaves over 95% of those criminals doing construction, etc. which used to pay a fair wage.

[cmist]

Originally Posted by Scots Boab

I would never complain because even although the immigration system that is in place is quite complicated i do believe it is so to protect the American people and their livlihoods and that is the way it should be!
Personnally i have skills that probably sets me apart in my trade from most Americans but for me the challenge is to come here and pass them on and hopefully help others benifit in the long run.

Many places have really complicated immigration procedures. Some places make it downright impossible. I read somewhere that Japan is practically closed and locked to immigration. On the basic level, a country is just another business, and sometimes the best business decisions have to be cold and impersonal. You can't always have a bleeding heart for everyone else, or you will kill yourself in the process.

I would support reaching out to help Mexico help themselves before I would support finding a way to accommodate the most poverty stricken refugees. Both avenues cost money, but one solution can work on the core issue, while the other way is unending, and only allows the Mexican govt to continue and ignore the responsibilities to its people.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Another reason Mexico can't recover or establish a vast middle class is because of huge corporate greed. Mexico has many more millionaires and wealthy families compared to the U.S. that keep the wealth within an old established class. There is a very real aristocracy in Mexico and a large feudal class as well "kept" by that aristocratic society...

And you nailed it in a nutshell.

[Huckleberry3911948]

when we here in CA, finished the fence, it exported illegal immigration to AZ.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by cmist

Many places have really complicated immigration procedures. Some places make it downright impossible. I read somewhere that Japan is practically closed and locked to immigration. On the basic level, a country is just another business, and sometimes the best business decisions have to be cold and impersonal. You can't always have a bleeding heart for everyone else, or you will kill yourself in the process.

I would support reaching out to help Mexico help themselves before I would support finding a way to accommodate the most poverty stricken refugees. Both avenues cost money, but one solution can work on the core issue, while the other way is unending, and only allows the Mexican govt to continue and ignore the responsibilities to its people.

The problem with helping Mexico is that it is not a poor nation-------its per capita income is above $14K a year. Parts of the USA have lower per capitas.

As fc80 inferred: change SoB has to come from within--------or we (the USA) will need to occupy it and impose marshall law, especially with Juarez, etc. going down in flames courtesy of the drug wars.

[cmist]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

The problem with helping Mexico is that it is not a poor nation-------its per capita income is above $14K a year. Parts of the USA have lower per capitas.

As fc80 inferred: change SoB has to come from within--------or we (the USA) will need to occupy it and impose marshall law, especially with Juarez, etc. going down in flames courtesy of the drug wars.

I completely agree and said something similar earlier as well. I hadnt read the whole thread prior to posting.

Its well known that the gov't down there doesn't share the wealth, and thats exactly what has to be addressed. By support I don't mean to carelessly donate huge sums of money to the govt.

I don't really know what to do since I don't have all the facts, but I would expect that someone whose main focus in life is international politics would have some better answers than what we are doing now.

On a human level, much more is achieved through positive strokes instead of engaging in power struggles. I perceive the US policies as always "strong arming" people into things which causes backlash and resentment. Its why there is such resistance to cooperating as neighbors in solidarity. I'm sure the Mexican govt is snickering at the immigration problems rather than sympathizing.

I think the US could be a lot more intelligent and cunning to get what they want... but it seems we are more interesting in simply being "powerful". As long as this is our national image, we can expect to make no progress.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by cmist

I completely agree and said something similar earlier as well. I hadnt read the whole thread prior to posting.

Its well known that the gov't down there doesn't share the wealth, and thats exactly what has to be addressed. By support I don't mean to carelessly donate huge sums of money to the govt.

I don't really know what to do since I don't have all the facts, but I would expect that someone whose main focus in life is international politics would have some better answers than what we are doing now.

On a human level, much more is achieved through positive strokes instead of engaging in power struggles. I perceive the US policies as always "strong arming" people into things which causes backlash and resentment. Its why there is such resistance to cooperating as neighbors in solidarity. I'm sure the Mexican govt is snickering at the immigration problems rather than sympathizing.

I think the US could be a lot more intelligent and cunning to get what they want... but it seems we are more interesting in simply being "powerful". As long as this is our national image, we can expect to make no progress.

Agreed.

Google Juarez blue helmets; that is how bad things are becoming SoB. In fact; a Mexican national here (probably working legally I may add @ a major chain store) flat told that her nation is imploding and she left.

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

As for Calif's Ag industry; if unemployment were to disappear forcing Americans to work and farmers AKA corporations were willing to pay higher $$$----------bye bye labor shortage. Besides: only about 2-3% of all illegals in recent years were involved in agriculture----------which leaves over 95% of those criminals doing construction, etc. which used to pay a fair wage.

Exactly. I'd be a labor for $8 an hour. I would say minimum wage, but i got bills to pay.