Woodland Hills School District (Pittsburgh, Liberty: lawyer, buy, wages)

[Seaharbour]

This whole thread was probally one of the most helpful threads I had ever read on this particular forum! Thanks for reviving it O'Neil...I am so sorry you had expereinced that but I am glad you got things going well for your son....your a good parent who obviously cares!

[O'Neil]

**** Politically Incorrect statement coming *****

I always heard that the underprivileged kids from the poorer neighborhoods weren't learning because they were in poor neighborhoods and if they could only move them into the "richer neighborhoods" they would benefit and prosper like everyone else. Well, Woodland Hills has been in existence for about 25 years now which means that the kids graduating for the last 15 years or so have had the same educational experience and opportunity regardless of neighborhood. Yet, if you look at the proficiency records http://www.paayp.com/103029902_perf_2.html (broken link) of the students, you'll see a large gap along the racial lines. Why is this? They all go to the same schools and sit in the same classrooms, right? It's been that way for 25 years now. Any kid graduating from WHSD this year has grown up in the same school district and has had the same opportunity as any other kid graduating from WHSD.

First you should ask why the state has to split the report data by race in the first place, but then maybe we'll come to the realization that the primary problem is more home-life and local communities and not so much how much money someone's parents make.

They should have fixed the failing schools instead of trying to hide them by merging them with others.

And in case you think of some kind of racist, my kids go to a charter school that serves the same area from the woodland hills district and those schools are doing much better.

[Seaharbour]

ALot of it lifestyle (working and not going out to bars and etc)...but what i do not get is why some people who live in poverty, had abusive parents can sometimes turn out to be so successful...look at Oprah. I do agree that self motivation is a factor. I grew up poor...had little, and no one paid for my education or pushed me to go to college...I wanted more in life. I also waited till I was older to have a child and learned how to be a good parent before I had a child, how to reward positive behavior instead of negative...I don't get it myself.

[vwscottie]

Originally Posted by Seaharbour

ALot of it lifestyle (working and not going out to bars and etc)...but what i do not get is why some people who live in poverty, had abusive parents can sometimes turn out to be so successful...look at Oprah. I do agree that self motivation is a factor. I grew up poor...had little, and no one paid for my education or pushed me to go to college...I wanted more in life. I also waited till I was older to have a child and learned how to be a good parent before I had a child, how to reward positive behavior instead of negative...I don't get it myself.

Earlier in the summer, I saw a news clip on KDKA about a group of so called "community activists" meeting in East Liberty one evening. Their meeting was a so called game plan on how to revitalize the East Liberty area. From the video and soundbytes, it was a crying session on how people were born and remain in poverty in that area. What a joke.

Every single one of us is born with the same ability to do whatever we want to do with our lives. What we end up doing is a whole different story.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by Seaharbour

ALot of it lifestyle (working and not going out to bars and etc)...but what i do not get is why some people who live in poverty, had abusive parents can sometimes turn out to be so successful...look at Oprah. I do agree that self motivation is a factor. I grew up poor...had little, and no one paid for my education or pushed me to go to college...I wanted more in life. I also waited till I was older to have a child and learned how to be a good parent before I had a child, how to reward positive behavior instead of negative...I don't get it myself.

There's always going to be an element of "freewill" in the equation. Of course, one can find an exception when talking about lack of privilege. But it's only an "exception" because we have determined a statistical norm. Quite obviously, school performance does indeed relate to the income level and social class of the parents. In fact it's the most statistically meaningful factor researchers have been able to directly relate to school performance. No one claims that simply sending a kid to a school with richer kids automatically solves the problem. In Woodland Hills, for instance, those kids from Braddock and Rankin still have to live more than 2/3rds of their lives in their home environments, which are often dicey and maladaptive at best. Just because those kids are not performing to the level of the Churchill kids at Woodland Hills doesn't mean that consolidation was a failure.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by vwscottie

Every single one of us is born with the same ability to do whatever we want to do with our lives. What we end up doing is a whole different story.

Where did you come up with this fairy tale idea? You don't honestly believe this, do you? Here's a very simplistic counter-proof- I was born with genetics that gave me the potential to be 6'5", which means I can dunk a basketball. My height obviously gives me an advantage that others lack. Regardless of the myths of "equality", everyone was born with and into circumstances that either limit or expand their potential.

[vwscottie]

Originally Posted by Merge

Where did you come up with this fairy tale idea? You don't honestly believe this, do you? Here's a very simplistic counter-proof- I was born with genetics that gave me the potential to be 6'5", which means I can dunk a basketball. My height obviously gives me an advantage that others lack. Regardless of the myths of "equality", everyone was born with and into circumstances that either limit or expand their potential.

I can't believe someone who said what you just did could question a comment like I made. If you grow up and believe there is no way out of poverty, then thats what you'll get. I grew up in a middle middle class family, my father supported my mom and my sister and I on no more than 13 dollars an hour. I grew up always wanting more and destined to be more than that, and that's where I'm at. It's all in what you want in life. You can make excuses or not let anything stop you.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by O'Neil

**** Politically Incorrect statement coming *****

I always heard that the underprivileged kids from the poorer neighborhoods weren't learning because they were in poor neighborhoods and if they could only move them into the "richer neighborhoods" they would benefit and prosper like everyone else. Well, Woodland Hills has been in existence for about 25 years now which means that the kids graduating for the last 15 years or so have had the same educational experience and opportunity regardless of neighborhood. Yet, if you look at the proficiency records http://www.paayp.com/103029902_perf_2.html (broken link) of the students, you'll see a large gap along the racial lines. Why is this? They all go to the same schools and sit in the same classrooms, right? It's been that way for 25 years now. Any kid graduating from WHSD this year has grown up in the same school district and has had the same opportunity as any other kid graduating from WHSD.

First you should ask why the state has to split the report data by race in the first place, but then maybe we'll come to the realization that the primary problem is more home-life and local communities and not so much how much money someone's parents make.

They should have fixed the failing schools instead of trying to hide them by merging them with others.

And in case you think of some kind of racist, my kids go to a charter school that serves the same area from the woodland hills district and those schools are doing much better.

We repeat and act out what we know from life and what we grew up with. It's hard wired into us. Some of us go the opposite direction to run from it, but more often then not we don't. My Dad dropped dead at 57, two of his sisters died at 63, one brother didn't hit 50. All heart attacks.

Every single one of Daddy's children has a weight problem. Most of Daddy's siblings children have weight problems. My cousin Bobby died last year of a heart attack at the age of -- you guessed it -- 50.

There is a "nature" component to this, but far more is a "nurture" component to this.

I know a couple that have lived in chaos their whole adult lives and they had childhoods that were chaotic, and their children will have chaotic lives fcrom their chaotic childhoods. These are not stupid people. But I've come to realize in the 10 years we've known them, that they are never going to crawl out of the hole they are digging themselves into. The minute they come close, they make another stupid decision that throws them back into the pit. No amount of trying to talk them out of it, no amount of throwing money at them to help them out, nothing NOTHING will stop them from doing something stupid to end them up at ground zero again.

And they CAN'T SEE THIS.

As I get older, I'm starting to see that we -- all people in general, regardless of any divide you want to put up -- don't ever look at the whole picture. We find the "easy" solution and we start screaming something has to be done to fix the schools. Then you fix the schools and discover it wasn't them.

I do think we may never be able to fix this divide. It's going to have to come from within, from a groundswell of revolt against this is the way we have always done it -- and if 118 murders over one year, almost 700 over 5 years isn't the start of this revolt -- I don't know what will be.

The sad thing is it isn't... it's business as usual...

[fleetiebelle]

We repeat and act out what we know from life and what we grew up with. It's hard wired into us. Some of us go the opposite direction to run from it, but more often then not we don't.

My sister taught in an inner city school for a while and said the same thing. There were kids that were smart, but they grew up in situations where unemployment, drugs, teenage pregnancy and jail were normal, and most of them had no idea how to get out of that cycle, because it was all that they knew and all they were exposed to.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by vwscottie

I can't believe someone who said what you just did could question a comment like I made. If you grow up and believe there is no way out of poverty, then thats what you'll get. I grew up in a middle middle class family, my father supported my mom and my sister and I on no more than 13 dollars an hour. I grew up always wanting more and destined to be more than that, and that's where I'm at. It's all in what you want in life. You can make excuses or not let anything stop you.

I think having a positive attitude and an ambitious approach can be a useful tool. Don't get me wrong. But discounting the advantages one's given at birth, and through one's upbringing, is insensitive and does everyone a bit of a disservice. People are simply not born with equal opportunity. It's a hard fact for some to accept, but there it is.