Highland Park (Pittsburgh, Wilkinsburg, Fox Chapel: crime rates, chapel, homes)

[BrianTH]

OK, I think that is enough of treating "black" as synonymous with "criminal". That isn't speaking plain, it is racial stereotyping.

[Squeamish]

Race in itself has nothing to do with crime, but cultural values and one's environment and friends/family have a lot to do with crime. Justice department statistics show that the crime rate among American blacks is 7 times higher than the crime rate among American whites. Again, it's not a racial thing, but it is a cultural thing. In this country, many if not most people of a given race are part of a certain culture with certain values. There are plenty of exceptions, plenty of people of any race who aren't part of the culture of many others in their race. But as a result of where this country is at today, there is a VERY strong correlation between black neighborhoods and high crime. If you looked at a crime heat map and race heat map of any major American city, I can almost guarantee you'd see the correlation.

That's not to say that most people who live in the ghetto, for lack of a better word, are criminals. I'm sure most of them are great kind law-abiding people who hate the crime in their neighborhood. But something about the culture of these neighborhoods yields a far higher percentage of criminals than other types of neighborhoods. It has a lot to do with poverty, and a lot to do with history. Going back 100 years, I believe some of its roots are in white against black racism on the part of our grandparents' generation, or thereabouts. But there are many other factors.

[BrianTH]

There is indeed a correlation between crime rates and poorer black neighborhoods, but not so much with middle-to-upper-class black neighborhoods.

And in any event, you aren't getting anything more out of saying "poor black neighborhoods" than "high-crime neighborhoods". So unless the topic at hand is actually about the correlations between crime rates and demographics, there is no point to saying anything but "high-crime neighborhoods". Calling them "black neighborhoods" is completely gratuitous in that context, and the only possible purpose could be to foster racial stereotyping.

[Squeamish]

Agreed. I don't see any reason middle to upper class black neighborhoods would have a different crime rate than their white counterparts. Although due to our culture and how this country has evolved, many if not most American blacks are poor, therefore many if not most black neighborhoods are poor, and since poor black neighborhood generally means high crime, mapping black neighborhoods would generate a remarkably similar map as mapping high crime neighborhoods.

But I also agree that using the word black does not get the point across since the real driver is the cultural values of the people and poverty, etc. not the race.

We all know it's very culturally unacceptable to say negative things about black people collectively in the US, although we're free to say negative things about Germans, French, etc., and people in other countries like Europe openly say negative things about any group of people, including American blacks, without getting censored like us Americans do. I've heard Europeans talk about it, and about how they can't say certain things in the US without getting censored. Bottom line, I want to be brutally honest but I hope I was able to get the point across without crossing this line.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

The thing that struck me about Highland Park is that people chain their front porch furniture as if it would just disappear...

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It is the city and bicycles are stolen off porches all the time and I am sure furniture would be especially if it was metal and someone could scrap it to get there 25 dollar high for the day.

Off topic, but funny story: I live in an extremely low crime suburban township. I came home one day and found an entire patio set sitting right in the middle of my front yard. I had never seen it before. I was surprised to see it sitting in my yard. I assumed neighborhood kids were playing games. When I called the police and reported this strange appearance in my yard, they said they had no reports of a stolen patio set. Over a few weeks, I would talk to neighbors about it when I would see them. Nobody knew anything until until I ran into one of my neighbors I hadn't seen in a while. It turns out he put it in my yard---because my child collected aluminum for boy scouts. He left a message on our home phone voice mail, the phone we have the ringer turned off because it's only for outgoing emergency calls.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Calling them "black neighborhoods" is completely gratuitous in that context, and the only possible purpose could be to foster racial stereotyping.

I don't feel I am foster anything by mentioning Highland Park is next to an area that happens to be a black neighborhood, like Homewood, the Hill District or Northveiw Heights. It is crime ridden and run down and full of drugs and violence. I am just hoping someday that those areas will keep moving out of the city, so the city can fully resurge. Until then the kids have to share schools with people that are too far gone and non-like. Shadyside kids going to the same schools as East Liberty is tough and most times the Shady kids parents have to pay to go to private school and also pay the crazy school taxes. Look what is happening to Penn Hills? Who is moving in there? What is happening in parts of that area?

You can view it how you like, but statistics are numbers that are very hard to argue against. I can't control the numbers. They are just numbers. The neighborhoods that are trouble are primarily black, if not all. I can't help that. Only the people in the neighborhoods can make the neighborhoods better. Hasn't happened much, but I do have hope that Wilkinsburg might one day be the cool black neighborhood. That would be great. The downtown area there seems to be doing a bit better and it does seem to have a decent feel. I would love to see it happen and maybe it could show the area it actually can happen. Until then, most people think the areas are lost causes unless they move people out and start over. Hope East Liberty can keep moving in the right direction and Shadyside can joint with Highland Park with a nice East Liberty in the middle. Wow, I have to dream!

[BrianTH]

There is a big difference between responsible discussions of statistics and the underlying causes of crime on the one hand, and racial stereotyping on the other. Using "black neighborhoods" as a synonym for "high-crime neighborhoods" falls into the second category, and there is no excuse for that.

I won't address everything else in detail because it is off topic. But I will say I think we have a responsibility as a society to do the best we can for every child, and hoping they will just move away so we can get on with our comfortable lives is shirking that responsibility.

[jimmyev]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It is the city and bicycles are stolen off porches all the time and I am sure furniture would be especially if it was metal and someone could scrap it to get there 25 dollar high for the day. I wouldn't leave things around unless the area is really isolated from the black neighborhoods. Sorry, but I speak plainly and honestly. Why sugarcoat things?

This is a ridiculous statement. I live in a suburban black-majority neighborhood. People leave stuff on their front porches all the time that isn't chained down - radios, tables, chairs, little TVs, snow shovels, etc. That's why I thought it so odd in Highland Park.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

This is a ridiculous statement. I live in a suburban black-majority neighborhood. People leave stuff on their front porches all the time that isn't chained down - radios, tables, chairs, little TVs, snow shovels, etc. That's why I thought it so odd in Highland Park.

Where is this? Most of the region's suburbs are predominantly white.

We often get newcomers who are hoping to find a safe diverse areas in the suburbs. You're keeping it a secret!

[gg]

Sorry, sometimes I get a bit frustrated and live in a dream world. I just wish Pittsburgh could rid the bad areas that happened to be mostly black. Get the school districts up and running. Imagine being able to live in a place like Shadyside or Point Breeze and send your kid to a great public school. It would be amazing. I will be long dead before it happens, but I can only have hope for the next generation. Pittsburgh Public Schools are really bad. I know kids there wasting their time. Too many kids that have not hope or bright outlook and desegregation killed the good and just made everything bad. The old saying one bad apple is so true. Have you ever driven/walked or cycled by that elementary school on Ellsworth. I would venture to say there are almost NO kids from Shadyside attending it. I find that sad. Where do the parents send their kids that live in Shadyside? Winchester Thurston? I can't imagine paying those super high taxes and have a bill from a private school to boot. What do those people do for a living? They have to make over $150K a year to pull that off. All because the kids can't go to public school with their neighbors within Shadyside. I personally don't feel it is fair, but I don't live there. I would love to live in Point Breeze and yes ahead of Fox Chapel, but I have a child. It makes me sad, but it is because of schools. How does one fix that problem? Do I sound like a bigot, or am I just saying what people think and not say it? Why can't Squirrel Hill have an isolated school. If Homewood wants a better school, why can't they pick themselves up and DO IT. Why do they need to have to take a bus all the way to another area? Why can' the kids walk to school and go with the neighboring kids?

Pardon my frustration. Guess I just would love to see Pittsburgh become a city that is better than most in education instead of being another Philly. There is a site that ranks school in the state. Most all of Pittsburgh Public Schools are at the very bottom with many inner-city schools in Philly. Why? Because the kids that live in the city that have parents that care very much about education send the kids to private schools.