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The problem is, and always has been, that wealthy people do not want to live around poor people. The rich and poor are starkly segregated in Pittsburgh, and there are clear divisions between working class, poor, affluent, and middle class neighborhoods. And everyone wants to live in the upper class neighborhoods, or so it seems.
I think you can leave out the word "Pittsburgh" and insert "USA".
Prime property usually goes to more affluent. I would like it to be above where I can live. I can't buy a home in Shadyside or my favorite parts of Point Breeze. I am happy they are nice and I enjoy walking there and cycling through there. The tax base is high and it is good for Pittsburgh. I don't walk around thinking I am more than the area? I am not part of the equation in my mind. I want what is best for the city as a whole and that has nothing to do with where I can live or what I want for myself. I want a good tax base in East Liberty, no litter, cleaned up, no drugs and guns and graffiti. It would also be great or Highland Park. Imagine walking from Highland Park to Shadyside in a nice, clean safe environment. Stop by a nice cafe on Penn Ave in the heart of East Liberty. Would be great. I don't care if I could ever afford it, but the area lends itself to greatness and who am I to slow it down or want section 8 housing being its anchor. The area is too prime for that stuff. Section 8's are getting our tax dollars, they don't need to take the prime land too. Not in my book. You want to live in a nice place, you gotta work for it. I lived in a dumb in Sharpsburg for years and a $450 a month includes all apt. I paid dues to move to a nicer place. I was motivated to do so. That is how the US was designed to work. If everyone was on even ground you are talking about communism. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Well like Rashan5 said Crawford Square in the Hill District is a perfect (and only) example of a mixed income section in Pittsburgh. Yet often times poor "hoods," are a skip, hop, and jump away from the afflunent which always was puzzeling to me. For example Point Breeze North is boarderd by Homewood and Wilkinsburg... A nice, middle-class neiborghood isn't too far away from the worst neiborhood in Western PA... Confusing
Last edited by Uptown kid; 03-17-2011 at 04:05 PM..
Reason: add/delete
Many years ago it was one of the most desirable locations in our region.
Back in the day, plenty of working class people lived in and around East Liberty. Again, these concepts seem foreign to you, but East Liberty was originally a commercial and transportation hub, and it is a good thing for working class people to be able to live in and near such areas. And that is what East Liberty is going to be again--not just a big gated community for rich people, but a place where people actually work, buy things, access transportation, and so on.
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Seems so many here only look at individuals and what happens to that person and this person. I am looking at Pittsburgh as a whole and what is best for Pittsburgh.
I am happy to admit that I believe that what happens to people matters a lot more than what happens to places. I think you have to be a monster to think otherwise, in fact.
Now that doesn't mean we can ignore places. Places have to be designed and developed to work well for people, to produce the things that people need, to be good for people to live in, and so on. But the reason we should care about all that is that places are important to people, not that places actually matter more than people.
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Lets look at some of the more desirable places in Pittsburgh to be. How about Regent Square. Nice place, but geographically it is a joke compared to East Liberty. I am hoping the developers see its true potential. I know of no other area that is as nice topographically in the Pittsburgh region. NOT ONE!
Regent Square is actually on a nice little flat-top promontary.
But anyway, this work has been done for you: the Pennsylvania Railroad strung together the best sites heading into Downtown, and there were major railroad stops and lots of commercial development at each one. Counting from Downtown, you have the Strip, then the Shadyside/Friendship area, then East Liberty, then Homewood/Point Breeze, then Wilkinsburg. I don't really see the need to rank those--they each have tremendous potential, which will likely get unlocked sooner or later.
Which, again, is why we need to be addressing these issues all along. It isn't just going to be an East Liberty problem, and I know you segregationists will be saying "just one more time!" each time this comes up.
I don't have a problem with section 8, as I think it's a better alternative to "concentrated poverty." . . . As someone who lives in one of these Section 8 neighborhoods, McKees Rocks, Section 8 is doing a whole lot more harm than good, and is recreating concentrated poverty.
Absolutely agree, as I noted above. And it won't be easy, but the only long-term solution is to do much more to disperse poverty, not give up on the idea.
The problem is, and always has been, that wealthy people do not want to live around poor people. The rich and poor are starkly segregated in Pittsburgh, and there are clear divisions between working class, poor, affluent, and middle class neighborhoods. And everyone wants to live in the upper class neighborhoods, or so it seems.
There is some truth to that, which is part of why all this takes concentrated effort. On the other hand, you can have a wide range of people in a neighborhood just by providing a mix of housing units (from small rentals to large owned homes), PROVIDED that there is not such a shortage of housing in such neighborboods that even the small places are highly desirable.
This is part of what we have seen in other cities--there are so many impediments to building in the relevant areas, and so little investment in creating more such areas, that the smallest places go for exorbitant sums. This is yet another of those things we should be thinking about in advance--we will want to make sure Pittsburgh is allowing supply to keep up with demand, and this will be an issue sooner than some people think.
Back in the day, plenty of working class people lived in and around East Liberty. Again, these concepts seem foreign to you, but East Liberty was originally a commercial and transportation hub, and it is a good thing for working class people to be able to live in and near such areas. And that is what East Liberty is going to be again--not just a big gated community for rich people, but a place where people actually work, buy things, access transportation, and so on.
I am happy to admit that I believe that what happens to people matters a lot more than what happens to places. I think you have to be a monster to think otherwise, in fact.
Regent Square is actually on a nice little flat-top promontary.
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The days of tons of steel workers and those types of jobs are over. We are not going to have huge amounts of laborers like many years ago. Might as well get with the times. I am talking about topography and the overall location of that area. It is perfect for high end. We have plenty of low end around. There is an opportunity to bridge Highland Park to Shadyside. People are too educated to want to live in the same buildings as section 8's. People don't want that. You have to get real in your thinking and stop living in fantasy land. Really Brian, that kind of thing is not gong to work. I am not saying there is no section 8 in and around East Liberty, but try and get the downtown to where it needs to be. Nice! Not a dump. The people that have been living there for as long as I've been alive had their chance to clean it up. Heck the government built homes for those people. It never went anywhere. It was a disaster. Sorry, but it was. I lived there long enough. I think it was about 6 years. Now I would consider moving back if things start becoming safer and cleaned up.
Regent Square is too tiny to be considered the same level as East Liberty. East Liberty is prime. Regent Square is okay, but not prime if you are comparing it to East Liberty. Have you been to Highland Park? Walked around that area? What about Shadyside? We need the area between the two to be more like. It is healthy and will promote walking and a neighborhood feel. The zoo and just being a great place. Walk up Penn Ave. to the artsy areas of Lawrenceville. It all has the potential to be one of the greatest places in the Pittsburgh area. I think you just feel it should be polished and hope for the best. I want the money to be pumped in and make it great. Sure people will have to leave because it is too expensive. It happens. If they were smart they would have worked and bought a home there and then the would be sitting pretty. It happens. We can't have it both ways. You pump the money in, make it nice and value will follow. If it stays a dump then everyone can stay. I hope it gets renovated and I think it will.
The days of tons of steel workers and those types of jobs are over. We are not going to have huge amounts of laborers like many years ago. Might as well get with the times.
Entry-level service workers have all the more reason to live in densely-populated areas with good public transit. Of course we don't pay such workers all that much--which is another thing we should be working on.
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People are too educated to want to live in the same buildings as section 8's. People don't want that.
Again, plenty of people rent market rate in the same buildings as people using Section 8 vouchers.
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You have to get real in your thinking and stop living in fantasy land. Really Brian, that kind of thing is not gong to work.
Again, the good news is that you are so clueless that you won't even notice when it is actually working.
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The people that have been living there for as long as I've been alive had their chance to clean it up. Heck the government built homes for those people. It never went anywhere.
They are still there, and it is going somewhere. Again, thank goodness you are so clueless.
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Regent Square is too tiny to be considered the same level as East Liberty. East Liberty is prime. Regent Square is okay, but not prime if you are comparing it to East Liberty.
Regent Square is actually probably close to 3/4 the size of East Liberty. The reason Regent Square was never going to be a commercial hub like East Liberty is that it is relatively isolated (it has stream valleys on three sides).
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We need the area between the two to be more like. It is healthy and will promote walking and a neighborhood feel.
Again, the great thing about how clueless you are is that when East Liberty is a thriving area, you'll think you have won, when in fact plenty of the people you want to kick out will still be there.
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We can't have it both ways.
Yes, we can. And I guess you will never know it, but maybe that is a good thing.
Crawford Square is the best example of mixed income housing in this city. You have black doctors living beside single mother service workers. There are quite a few white homeowners with the majority being former hill district residents that wanted to improve the Hill District. No litter, no dispair or conflicts. The Crawford Square footprint is expanding toward the Middle Hill as we speak.
Yep. I delivered there the other day and absolutely fell in love with the place. My partner and I are considering moving in together later this year when our leases are up, and we're considering looking into an apartment here.
They are still there, and it is going somewhere. Again, thank goodness you are so clueless.
Regent Square is actually probably close to 3/4 the size of East Liberty. The reason Regent Square was never going to be a commercial hub like East Liberty is that it is relatively isolated (it has stream valleys on three sides).
Guess you didn't notice the high rises that were given to the people that trashed them are all gone. Where did they go? They are gone. I don't think you know the area well enough to discuss it with me. I lived there and walked/cycled there for years.
Regent Square isn't anything like East Liberty. East Liberty is between to great walking areas that are quite nice. Regent Square is more stand alone. I hardly think Swissvale can be compared to Shadyside and Wilkinsburg to Highland Park, but no doubt you will tell me they are the same for argument sake.
Not going to see eye to eye on this at all. Every neighborhood in Pittsburgh is segregated by how much people can afford. Like minds tend to gravitate towards each other. It is a natural occurrence and it will happen in East Liberty as long as they aim it in the right direction. From what I have seen so far they are aiming pretty high and going to get rid of many that won't afford it. Can't wait for it to be cleaned up. Will be amazing!
Guess you didn't notice the high rises that were given to the people that trashed them are all gone. Where did they go? They are gone.
Like I said, clueless. There have been many new development completed already, which have subsidized units in them, into which people who lived in the high-rises have moved. Again, the great thing about you being so clueless is you will think you have won when you actually won't have.
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I don't think you know the area well enough to discuss it with me. I lived there and walked/cycled there for years.
I've noticed you are very, very good at ignoring facts that don't fit with your worldview. I wouldn't trust you to tell me what was six inches in front of your face if it somehow implied that poor people could be good neighbors.
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Regent Square isn't anything like East Liberty.
I don't know why you are obsessed with comparing Regent Square to East Liberty. I already explained how they are different myself.
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Every neighborhood in Pittsburgh is segregated by how much people can afford.
Again, you are clueless. There are many Pittsburgh neighborhoods were people have very different household incomes.
Oh well. No sense talking to a person who refuses to deal with facts. Let alone a person who think it would be great if Pittsburgh looked like a Third World country.
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