The neighborhood that used to be next to downtown (Columbia: university, income)

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by jay5835

I lived in the Village in the 1970s, in two different places, Fifth Avenue at 11th Street, and 10th Street west of Broadway. I grew up 20 miles away, and went to NY a lot in my youth.

I was a resident of Lawrenceville from 2009 to 2010. The house was the worst-constructed building I ever lived in. I could smell cat pi$$ emanating through the walls from my next door neighbor's house constantly.

You're judging an area based on one house?

[pman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Humble

I agree that the Lower Hill had a future, but New York has such an influx of people and money that gentrification is often automatic. I think Pittsburgh like most other smaller, rustier cities has a tougher time in this regard.

You always have to scale things down when comparing. Still even nyc couldnt overcome what they did to the bronx.

Jay-you might not have lived there at all if it wasnt for the fight people put up in the 50's. I think brian nailed it. You could also look at southwest center city/ graduatr hospital in philadelphia. It was run down even as recently ten years ago but it had a location adjacent to downtown. When crime dipped and city living increased it transformed almost overnight with hundreds of abandoned properties being renovated by all kinds of people.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Mr. Humble

I agree that the Lower Hill had a future, but New York has such an influx of people and money that gentrification is often automatic. I think Pittsburgh like most other smaller, rustier cities has a tougher time in this regard.

That has certainly been true in recent decades, but I think the gap is going to close going forward. I don't expect it to be quite as fast in Pittsburgh, but I do think it will surprise a lot of people here.

[simetime]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

The problem is not "Blacks" in general, but the "Black underclass". This is a population rife with various social and economic problems. Unfortunately, they tend to follow the black middle class wherever they "run" to, effectively cancelling out any gains the black middle class achieves by moving to better areas.

Thats very true, but I look at Pittsburgh as being unique in one aspect, there is'nt a black middle class area. Pittsburgh's black elite or at least upper middle class has hidden itself within the wealthy whites.

[simetime]

Originally Posted by Impala26

Renewal or no, I'd wonder how at least part of the neighborhood would have turned out if the Strip-Hill incline was kept intact.

Wow! I almost forgot about that. You are right, I wonder about the same thing

[simetime]

Originally Posted by rr61

you're on the wrong side of the hill ( if we are looking at the same picture) ... the ballfield is Washington Park. you can also see the rec center building at the downtown end of the field. Yes, that's Connelly above the field. The blvd is Bigelow, not Allies. The main street along the field is Bedford Ave. There were some very nice homes along that past of Bedford. I played for a football team (11-13 year old league) at Washington Park in the 50s. I love seeing these pictures. I will go to that picture site Brian gave later. And I might post comments on more of the pictures later.

Daggummit! you are right! the blvd of the Allies is on the other side The field has been turned into the national boyscout of something or another. I have always heard of Forbes field but I just remembered that it was in Oakland. I'm familiar with Bedford Ave since it runs straight through the Hill to Herron Ave.

[simetime]

Originally Posted by rr61

Again , if we are talking about the same picture ( car tracks). I believe it's Wylie Ave heading uphill, outbound and not 5th Ave. I lived halfway between 5th and Wylie. The 82 Lincoln and 85 Bedford ran on Wylie.

The picture with the kids crossing? I'm pretty sure that is on Bedford Ave, the store still sits in that same place. The other two I'm not too sure of though. I remember the 82 "Stinkin Lincoln" runing through Center Ave but as I recall the 84 ran on Bedford Ave and through Wylie Ave on Kirkpatrick throught projects (elmore/bentley) and on to Oakland. Oh those bus riding days <sighs>

[rr61]

This was my school at the corner of Forbes and Stevenson. It was a wonderful building. It even had a swimming pool and beginning in 3rd grade we swam every week. I learned to swim and dive there at a young age and was very proud to be one of only a few in 3rd/4th grade to be allowed in the deep water and on the diving board.

The building in the upper right is Mercy Hosp.

I was very sad , and still am, that it was replaced in the 70s by a parking garage. That's progress I guess.

[rr61]

Originally Posted by ;

The picture with the kids crossing? I'm pretty sure that is on Bedford Ave, the store still sits in that same place. The other two I'm not too sure of though. I remember the 82 "Stinkin Lincoln" runing through Center Ave but as I recall the 84 ran on Bedford Ave and through Wylie Ave on Kirkpatrick throught projects (elmore/bentley) and on to Oakland. Oh those bus riding days <sighs>

We're from different eras. When I say 85 Bedford, I mean the streetcar way back in the 50s when both the 82 and 85 ran on Wylie in the Lower Hill. Going outbound the 82 turned right on Fullerton ( not Fulton as was mentioned in that PG article*) then left on Centre, where Centre began and the 85 turned left over to Bedford and then right all the way out Bedford to Herron.

* Fullerton was the main street, with car tracks and businesses, across the top of the Lower Hill roughly where Crawford is now. I remember hearing oldtimers call it Fulton because, I believe, it was Fulton before the name was changed after Allegheny city, with it's own Fulton, joined Pgh. The new widened and paved street was given the name Crawford, maybe as a tribute to the historic and famous jazz club, The Crawford Grill, and the name Fullerton disappeared, except for an August Wilson play. --- this may be too much information, but I'm enjoying the memories.

[simetime]

Originally Posted by rr61

We're from different eras. When I say 85 Bedford, I mean the streetcar way back in the 50s when both the 82 and 85 ran on Wylie in the Lower Hill. Going outbound the 82 turned right on Fullerton ( not Fulton as was mentioned in that PG article*) then left on Centre, where Centre began and the 85 turned left over to Bedford and then right all the way out Bedford to Herron.

* Fullerton was the main street, with car tracks and businesses, across the top of the Lower Hill roughly where Crawford is now. I remember hearing oldtimers call it Fulton because, I believe, it was Fulton before the name was changed after Allegheny city, with it's own Fulton, joined Pgh. The new widened and paved street was given the name Crawford, maybe as a tribute to the historic and famous jazz club, The Crawford Grill, and the name Fullerton disappeared, except for an August Wilson play. --- this may be too much information, but I'm enjoying the memories.

Wow! I'm greatful that you shared this knowledge I'm going home in a couple of months and I'm going to talk to my older family members about some of the things that you mentioned....Thanks again

They changed the bus route again anyway for the 84 bedford. It goes down through Bedford across Wylie and down Centre ave a bit and......Oh well bus riding is'nt what it used to be