PINE RICHLAND RESIDENTS...increase in school taxes/teacher contract negotiations....are you concerned? (school district, salaries)

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by southeastlady

We rest our case on results. When Pine Richland test scores drop by 89%, it is a pretty clear indicator that we are not getting what we are paying for!

Is the answer to pay less?

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by southeastlady

Simply for your edification, this most certainly is serious subject.

You clearly show your bias. We are not attacking the integrity of teachers or the profession itself. We are addressing run away costs and wasteful spending on unionized teachers and irresponsible administrators.

As a former business executive, I have seen PFP and merit based salary systems work very well when they are supported by solid performance planning and appraisal.

Poor performance by individuals in industry can be easily corrected if properly documented. The only time that one has to go to extended efforts is when you are dealing with a member of a protected class.

I hope we all see who we are dealing with here. She is equating bias with having an opinion that differs from hers. I'm defending the profession because I do not believe teachers are overcompensated.

And by the way she is referring to minorities when she says "member of a protected class." That's who we are dealing with. It's a shame she thinks like that, so like I said before, time for capitulation. We are dealing with a lost cause.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by southeastlady

We rest our case on results. When Pine Richland test scores drop by 89%, it is a pretty clear indicator that we are not getting what we are paying for!

Sounds like bad parenting. Maybe because home values are up, parents are finding dual income as necessary to afford the area and neglecting early childhood develpment?

[southeastlady]

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

I hope we all see who we are dealing with here. She is equating bias with having an opinion that differs from hers. I'm defending the profession because I do not believe teachers are overcompensated.

And by the way she is referring to minorities when she says "member of a protected class." That's who we are dealing with. It's a shame she thinks like that, so like I said before, time for capitulation. We are dealing with a lost cause.

We can not ignore your comment regarding protective class. Protective classes include much more than minorities. They include women, handicap, sexual proclivity, folks from other countries, religion, etc.

Taking the extra step in documenting poor performance is required by many laws most prominantly Title 7 of the civil rights act as supplemented by executive order 11246.

You have every right to your beliefs with your protective reference to teachers.

However, degrading my ethics in this forum and thereby removing the integrity of its original intent is not acceptable.

As evidenced by my many reply posts, I do not enter into any arena without the facts. May I respectfully request that you do the same.

The bottom line is that as adults, we can agree to disagree, so also as adults we need to do it in a respectful manner.

I can only write your comments off as a typical liberal response, i.e., alleging or inferring racism where none exists.

[southeastlady]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

Is the answer to pay less?

We are not talking about paying less, we are talking about getting more out of a merit based system.

[gg]

Originally Posted by southeastlady

Since you live in the state of California, it would appear that you would need to make $78/hour in order to meet basic living needs.

Something that people keep overlooking. We can compare our teacher salaries to teachers in San Francisco because we pay about the same as they do. Is the cost of living the same here as there?

[gg]

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

We are dealing with a lost cause.

The train lights are already in the tunnel and you want to stay on the current course of going towards the light? Do you think medical costs are going down anytime soon? That is a cost to the taxpayer, not the teachers. What about the pensions which coincide with these high salaries? Good luck thinking all this is going to go away. It isn't. Do you want more stimulus money? More debt for our kids to pay? I get a kick out of people only focusing on today and what can be paid for with raising taxes a little. You might want to look at 5 to 10 years from now. You might be singing a different tune. I just don't think people realize how unsustainable all this is. For those with really deep pockets it will be okay for them if they don't have kids in public school because the cuts that will have to be made due to current salary structure isn't going to make for a very rounded education.

[Retiredcoach]

The direct and indirect costs of public education have grown to such significant levels that one must ask, is this all sustainable? There are some that have posted responses that suggest that fleeing the area will improve their personal circumstances. Maybe this is a viable solution, but why must they feel the necessity to leave their homes when the problems/trade-offs may soon follow them to their new homes?

We finally have a governor hellbent upon reducing costs. I am not saying that I am in agreement with all that he is doing, but at least, he is trying to invoke some levels of financial accountability in the schools. I don't know if the quality of education will improve if school administrators (who are overseeing/ directing faltering programs) will make things better if their salaries are increased, more of them are hired, district-paid smartphones are provided for them, more "paid home/ down time" is offered, or if they are in need of less time in the schools and more time to "convene" or rest at home. I am not sure if teachers should still be required to instruct students for only 5 of the 7.5 of the hours in school, teach only 36 weeks of a 52 week year, be provided with pensions worth one million dollars upon retiring after 30 years, and/or earn salaries that can eclipse $100,000 annually. I cannot definitively say that all of the 25 varsity sports team costs are as educationally beneficial as the costs to pay the coaches/timekeepers/referees/announcers/bus companies/trainers/ game facilitators/ announcers/ scorekeepers at the elementary, middle school, ninth grade, in/on district maintained facilities or stadiums illuminated for the 50, or so, parents in attendance at night. All that I do know is that if a school board is provided with a blank check, it is almost a guarantee that they will spend all money at hand and place the rest on credit. The pension soon-to-be funding crisis is not of the teachers' doing- it is another "deferred payment plan" ignored until due (now).

Maybe southeast lady is on to something.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

The direct and indirect costs of public education have grown to such significant levels that one must ask, is this all sustainable? There are some that have posted responses that suggest that fleeing the area will improve their personal circumstances. Maybe this is a viable solution, but why must they feel the necessity to leave their homes when the problems/trade-offs may soon follow them to their new homes?

We finally have a governor hellbent upon reducing costs. I am not saying that I am in agreement with all that he is doing, but at least, he is trying to invoke some levels of financial accountability in the schools. I don't know if the quality of education will improve if school administrators (who are overseeing/ directing faltering programs) will make things better if their salaries are increased, more of them are hired, district-paid smartphones are provided for them, more "paid home/ down time" is offered, or if they are in need of less time in the schools and more time to "convene" or rest at home. I am not sure if teachers should still be required to instruct students for only 5 of the 7.5 of the hours in school, teach only 36 weeks of a 52 week year, be provided with pensions worth one million dollars upon retiring after 30 years, and/or earn salaries that can eclipse $100,000 annually. I cannot definitively say that all of the 25 varsity sports team costs are as educationally beneficial as the costs to pay the coaches/timekeepers/referees/announcers/bus companies/trainers/ game facilitators/ announcers/ scorekeepers at the elementary, middle school, ninth grade, in/on district maintained facilities or stadiums illuminated for the 50, or so, parents in attendance at night. All that I do know is that if a school board is provided with a blank check, it is almost a guarantee that they will spend all money at hand and place the rest on credit. The pension soon-to-be funding crisis is not of the teachers' doing- it is another "deferred payment plan" ignored until due (now).

Maybe southeast lady is on to something.

The difference I interpret in what you're saying and what the OP has been proclaiming is that OP is looking at a small picture, and you're looking at the big picture which is obviously the real issue. Sustainability. Sure, chipping away a little at a time is one way to go about it, but protesting to the board isn't going to get you there. Get on the board, as someone suggested. Get as many seats on that board as you can. Go to the top. Pensions have already bankrupted most school districts, they just don't admit it yet. Ditto for retiree health care. Current health care costs should be re-negotiated. $5 copays should not be the norm. I agree with all of these things. Problem is, the issue is way bigger and deeper than one locale.

[southeastlady]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

The difference I interpret in what you're saying and what the OP has been proclaiming is that OP is looking at a small picture, and you're looking at the big picture which is obviously the real issue. Sustainability. Sure, chipping away a little at a time is one way to go about it, but protesting to the board isn't going to get you there. Get on the board, as someone suggested. Get as many seats on that board as you can. Go to the top. Pensions have already bankrupted most school districts, they just don't admit it yet. Ditto for retiree health care. Current health care costs should be re-negotiated. $5 copays should not be the norm. I agree with all of these things. Problem is, the issue is way bigger and deeper than one locale.

Both you and our good friend the coach are correct in your assessment that the issues are global and much larger than just little 'ole Pine Richland.

There are no assurances that the people you support and vote for will perform in a fiscal responsible fashion.

The last two people that we backed with write in votes for the Pine Richland school board that pledged to be cost conscious were the swing votes that passed the recent budget increase.

Our impetus is to wake up all the too many indifferent tax payers by educating them as to what is going on.

To quote a much over used cliche, "We are attempting to eat the elephant one spoonful at a time".