PA House vote on Transportation Funding Bill FAILS (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: live, price)

[pman]

Originally Posted by Lobick

Wait....let's get really speculatively Machiavellian about motives for voting sans proof...seems to be the parlor game on this thread.

it's called using common sense rather than naivete. it seems everyone but you knows its going on.

Originally Posted by Lobick

Maybe the Dems wanted to kill this House bill regardless but to do so in a way that gave them the cover of attempting to work with the "purported" compromise (AKA "demand"). Its failure winds up hurting Corbett, making him look impotant and ultimately forcing the GOP into the difficult decision of punting the transportation issue all together (despite it being a real problem) or putting up the clean bill. They trot out Rendell for cover, Fitgerald and the like go along. Whip the votes to make it close. The Philly area reps have to vote pro-transit as SEPTA has much greater suburban impact than PAT, which isn't actually all that popular outside of the City limits here in Pittsburgh but union cover for the vote doesn't really matter since everybody inside the tent knows it's getting killed anyway.

so the democrats aren't actually trying to protect unions they're just trying to make the governor look bad. that's a much more rational explanation than some principles. yes, they're screwing PAT riders in hopes of winning a minor political battle. votes in the Philadelphia area were fairly solid with both R's and dems voting for with a few major exceptions..bucks county which, like Allegheny, isn't particularly well served by SEPTA, and montco, the most puzzling of the bunch. between the city of Pittsburgh and the votes in montco that represent solid septa territory that should have voted for it, the bill would have passed. let's remember, it's not just transit. the only argument against the bill I haven't heard is whether or not it funds good projects.
I don't really buy the Corbett spin, for me, as a resident, it's less about who owns the ball (in reality, everyone who voted against it owns it) and more about getting it done. if Corbett fails it might be the last straw (of course, he maybe dead in the water anyway) but it's also a big problem for the state. by the time a new governor and legislature is elected, SEPTA will already be shutting down service and PAT will have already slashed service. the turnpike will already have hundreds of millions in additional debt to support penndot and repairs will have gotten more expensive. this isn't some game, there are real consequences.

[zman63]

Originally Posted by pman

it's called using common sense rather than naivete. it seems everyone but you knows its going on.



so the democrats aren't actually trying to protect unions they're just trying to make the governor look bad. that's a much more rational explanation than some principles. yes, they're screwing PAT riders in hopes of winning a minor political battle. votes in the Philadelphia area were fairly solid with both R's and dems voting for with a few major exceptions..bucks county which, like Allegheny, isn't particularly well served by SEPTA, and montco, the most puzzling of the bunch. between the city of Pittsburgh and the votes in montco that represent solid septa territory that should have voted for it, the bill would have passed. let's remember, it's not just transit. the only argument against the bill I haven't heard is whether or not it funds good projects.
I don't really buy the Corbett spin, for me, as a resident, it's less about who owns the ball (in reality, everyone who voted against it owns it) and more about getting it done. if Corbett fails it might be the last straw (of course, he maybe dead in the water anyway) but it's also a big problem for the state. by the time a new governor and legislature is elected, SEPTA will already be shutting down service and PAT will have already slashed service. the turnpike will already have hundreds of millions in additional debt to support penndot and repairs will have gotten more expensive. this isn't some game, there are real consequences.

I do not have much faith in the Commonwealth of PA. We always seem to be the last state to join the party. They wonder why businesses don't want to locate or stay here. PA is a beautiful state and has all the ingredients to thrive, but it just constantly shoots itself in the foot. It refuses to evolve. The taxpayers are taken for a ride and the elected officials just kick the can down the road.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Pennsylvania State House passes $2.3B Transportation Bill. I'm glad that some of the politicians came to their senses.

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/20...s/201311190149

[UKyank]

Maybe those they changed their yay's to nay's got a lot of phone call ire from their constituents.

Sadly a lot of the Allegheny County Reps were not among those on board to help their own constituents & voted no.

[captainmidnight]

"It relies primarily on increasing wholesale gas taxes that Micozzi said would be passed on to consumers at a cost of about a nickel per gallon over five years"

Really, one of the reasons they made a fuss about this was a nickel per gallon increase? Are you kidding me?? It is totally worth it, IMO. I wish grocery item prices only went up a nickel. The wholesale gas cap hasn't been touched since the 90s. Times have changed.

State House approves $2.3 billion transportation package | TribLIVE

[Lobick]

Rep. Nick Micozzie’s (R-Delaware) amendment to the transportation funding bill passed on its third vote Tuesday, 104 to 95, effectively sending the $2.3 billion to the Senate.
The amendment failed in two votes Monday night, by a larger margin its second time up..
A handful of Republicans switched their votes and put the bill over the finish line: Reps. Karen Boback (R-Columbia), Seth Grove (R-York), Mark Keller (R-Franklin), Michael Peifer (R-Monroe), Stan Saylor (R-York) and Will Tallman (R-Adams). Dems who swapped in favor of the bill are Nick Kotik (D-Allegheny), Mike Sturla (D-Lancaster).
Every single one of the Republicans who changed their yeas to nays yesterday for the second vote on Monday changed back to support the bill on Tuesday: State Reps. Sue Helm (R-Dauphin), Sandra Major (R-Susquehanna), Ron Marsico (R-Dauphin), Kurt Masser (R-Columbia), Ron Miller (R-York), Duane Milne (R-Chester), Dan Moul (R-Adams), John Payne (R-Dauphin), Marguerite Quinn (R-Bucks) and Curtis Sonney (R-Erie).
Micozzie’s amendment included an increase in gas and vehicle taxes, as well as an increase to the threshold for prevailing wage. The funding includes $500 in mass transit funding.

I'm glad to see that the Republicans finally whipped together their caucus and were able to twist enough arms to pass a Republican bill. Why anybody thought that it was the Democrats job to do so is beyond me.

Additionally, I'm heartened to see that those Democrats who claimed to have taken a principled stand against the erosion of prevailing wage provisions (whether you believe them or not) were not forced to sacrifice their beliefs due to irresponsible brinksmanship.

The GOP had to get this done for Corbett if he has any chance to be re-elected.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by bmantz65

"It relies primarily on increasing wholesale gas taxes that Micozzi said would be passed on to consumers at a cost of about a nickel per gallon over five years"

Really, one of the reasons they made a fuss about this was a nickel per gallon increase? Are you kidding me?? It is totally worth it, IMO. I wish grocery item prices only went up a nickel. The wholesale gas cap hasn't been touched since the 90s. Times have changed.

An extra nickel per gallon of gasoline increases the cost of a full 16-gallon tank by 80 cents. That's the cost of a plain old hamburger at McDonald's.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Lobick

I'm glad to see that the Republicans finally whipped together their caucus and were able to twist enough arms to pass a Republican bill. Why anybody thought that it was the Democrats job to do so is beyond me.

Additionally, I'm heartened to see that those Democrats who claimed to have taken a principled stand against the erosion of prevailing wage provisions (whether you believe them or not) were not forced to sacrifice their beliefs due to irresponsible

Just because your party isn't in control doesn't mean you shouldn't do what's best for the state. Voting against this to make Corbett look bad is as sad and childish as the government shutdown because some didn't like that obamacare was passed.
The prevailing wage update is perfectly reasonable and will allow penndot to fund some smaller projects without having to put a further strain on the transportation budget.

I wish both parties would stop being beholden to small lobbyist groups & actually put the interests of the majority first.

Though for the record, most of the press releases of the Dems voting 'no' on the bill are citing the increased tax & how much of a burden it will be on their district as their reason for voting they way they did as if they are tea party members themselves.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Lobick

I'm glad to see that the Republicans finally whipped together their caucus and were able to twist enough arms to pass a Republican bill. Why anybody thought that it was the Democrats job to do so is beyond me.

Additionally, I'm heartened to see that those Democrats who claimed to have taken a principled stand against the erosion of prevailing wage provisions (whether you believe them or not) were not forced to sacrifice their beliefs due to irresponsible brinksmanship.

The GOP had to get this done for Corbett if he has any chance to be re-elected.

I find your logic bizarre. you claim I have no basis for thinking special interests play a dominant role in harrisburg. you claim that democrats aren't engaging in petty politics, then turn around and point out they ARE engaging in petty politics. then you claim you cannot understand why anyone would think that democrats who represent urban areas should vote for what is best for the areas they represent. worse, you claimed that it took courage to tow the party line as a democrat and pander to special interest despite what was essentially a token exemption. the reality is it took courage for anti-tax Republicans to vote for a tax hike to fund transportation..no thanks to weaklings like ravenstahl (really, does anyone think political families are good?) and dum costa. if you live in the city of pittsburgh and your representative voted against the bill just to make corbett look bad as if they are in middle school, they deserve to be voted out of office. much like ravenstahl the mayor needed to be voted out of office, the state reps need new blood. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that peduto supported the bill.

Transportation Secretary Barry Schoch said that given that most transportation projects cost far more than $100,000, the provision would have applied only to 17 state projects in the last year and would likely largely affect only municipal projects in rural areas.

Read more at Pa. House OKs transportation bill it rejected a day earlier

[Geeo]

I was pleased to hear that the bill finally passed. Kind of restored my faith in politicians who vote for the common good, even if it goes against their "core principles." Politics is all about compromise and not everybody getting everything they want. We seem to have lost that idea in state and federal government.