What suburbs are the next to be gentrified? (York, Warren: for sale, house)

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by alastad

eschaton, people consider Swissvale to be too far? Sorry, but those people are being way to picky in regards to closeness to the city. If you look at where it's located on a map on the Wikipedia page about it it's western edge borders the eastern edge of the city core.

It is strange that a suburb that literally borders the city could be considered too far out.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by stburr91

It is strange that a suburb that literally borders the city could be considered too far out.

Bridge and tunnel mentality, 'n at, though in fairness, that's a very common mindset that doesn't really relate to size and sophistication (e.g., Manhattan).

[alastad]

Originally Posted by stburr91

It is strange that a suburb that literally borders the city could be considered too far out.

Amen to that

[alastad]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Okay. The rent is cheaper in those cities because they have less to offer. Cleveland is on its way back, but it's still behind Pittsburgh's train on the urban revitalization tracks. In addition, Cleveland has much fewer desirable city neighborhoods, but significantly more desirable suburbs, so apples-to-apples neighborhood comparisons would be much more helpful than aggregate statistics. Buffalo has theoretical potential, but I don't see it getting its ducks in a row anytime soon. As for Louisville, I've never been, but I believe my friend's fiancee, who's a native, when he says it's sprawled out and has fairly little to offer, though there are certainly far worse places to live, and I'm sure it has its charms and upsides, like every city.

How's that?

Cleveland, from what I understand, has everything Pittsburgh has to offer. We both have trendy clothing stores like AE, Gap, Areopostale, Hollister, Banana Republic, J Crew, Buckle, Abercrombie & Fitch, etch. etch., and we both have Starbucks and I'm sure Cleveland has to have some nice ethnic restaurants like Pittsburgh has like Casbah, Legume, etch. etch., I find it hard to believe they don't. Now Buffalo, OK, they probably don't have a Banana Republic or J crew but I'm sure they at least have an AE or Hollister or Buckle and probably a Starbucks and at least a few ethnic restaurants. Louisville same as Buffalo I'd imagine. As far as Cleveland not having as many nice neighborhoods, yeah, I could believe that, I suppose.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by alastad

Cleveland, from what I understand, has everything Pittsburgh has to offer. We both have trendy clothing stores like AE, Gap, Areopostale, Hollister, Banana Republic, J Crew, Buckle, Abercrombie & Fitch, etch. etch., and we both have Starbucks and I'm sure Cleveland has to have some nice ethnic restaurants like Pittsburgh has like Casbah, Legume, etch. etch., I find it hard to believe they don't. Now Buffalo, OK, they probably don't have a Banana Republic or J crew but I'm sure they at least have an AE or Hollister or Buckle and probably a Starbucks and at least a few ethnic restaurants. Louisville same as Buffalo I'd imagine. As far as Cleveland not having as many nice neighborhoods, yeah, I could believe that, I suppose.

I've been quite impressed by Cleveland the last several times I've been there. I like a lot of vintage crap, and that city puts the Burgh to shame when it comes to that scene. I've had several good meals; enjoyed trips to the contemporary and classical art museums; visited some offbeat tourist attractions (the Cleveland Police Museum and the Museum of Divine Statues); got coffee at several Starbucks; and walked around many parts of the city, appreciating the diverse architecture and taking photographs. I don't care about sports, but I could have seen an NBA contest, a ML baseball game, or the NFL. I also didn't partake in any of the nightlife... but more bands still come through there (partially b/c of a prohibitive entertainment tax in the Burgh), and there are several microbreweries to go along with upscale and trendy lounges that seem to be making a resurgence with the older, more sophisticated consumer. Cleveland is coming along just fine.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by alastad

Cleveland, from what I understand, has everything Pittsburgh has to offer. We both have trendy clothing stores like AE, Gap, Areopostale, Hollister, Banana Republic, J Crew, Buckle, Abercrombie & Fitch, etch. etch., and we both have Starbucks and I'm sure Cleveland has to have some nice ethnic restaurants like Pittsburgh has like Casbah, Legume, etch. etch., I find it hard to believe they don't. Now Buffalo, OK, they probably don't have a Banana Republic or J crew but I'm sure they at least have an AE or Hollister or Buckle and probably a Starbucks and at least a few ethnic restaurants. Louisville same as Buffalo I'd imagine. As far as Cleveland not having as many nice neighborhoods, yeah, I could believe that, I suppose.

I didn't say Cleveland has nothing to offer. I said it doesn't offer as much.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by alastad

eschaton, people consider Swissvale to be too far? Sorry, but those people are being way to picky in regards to closeness to the city. If you look at where it's located on a map on the Wikipedia page about it it's western edge borders the eastern edge of the city core.

It's not so much that it's too far, as it is that other areas are closer.

Gentrification based around transit lines tends to proceed out from station to station away from the core. Right now we're seeing almost all the development around East Liberty Station on the EBT. I grant that Homewood Station will probably be skipped over in the shorter run in favor of Wilkinsburg. But I don't see it skipping all the way down the line to Swissvale when better options exist in Wilkinsburg - not until Wilkinsburg is gentrified, which could take decades yet to finish.

More specific to the area, Swissvale does border the city in two chunks. The Regent Square portion is already gentrified. The other segment which borders the city is adjacent to Swisshelm Park, which, while a stable middle-class neighborhood, is really isolated and off the beaten path in terms of the East End. As in, there is only one road connection between it and the rest of the City, which essentially passes through Frick Park along the way. As a result, Swisshelm Park is really forgotten - maybe more so than anywhere else in the East End. Functionally speaking, it's more linked to Swissvale than Swissvale is to the city.

Originally Posted by Merge

I've been quite impressed by Cleveland the last several times I've been there. I like a lot of vintage crap, and that city puts the Burgh to shame when it comes to that scene. I've had several good meals; enjoyed trips to the contemporary and classical art museums; visited some offbeat tourist attractions (the Cleveland Police Museum and the Museum of Divine Statues); got coffee at several Starbucks; and walked around many parts of the city, appreciating the diverse architecture and taking photographs. I don't care about sports, but I could have seen an NBA contest, a ML baseball game, or the NFL. I also didn't partake in any of the nightlife... but more bands still come through there (partially b/c of a prohibitive entertainment tax in the Burgh), and there are several microbreweries to go along with upscale and trendy lounges that seem to be making a resurgence with the older, more sophisticated consumer. Cleveland is coming along just fine.

Cleveland has three big positives over Pittsburgh:

1. Downtown has more dining/nightlife (but conversely, there is nearly no nightlife in other city neighborhoods, besides a smattering of stuff in Ohio City,Tremont, and University Circle).

2. There's a much better rail system (although transit is used less than Pittsburgh overall).

3. There's a more notable black middle class. Even in trendy upscale restaurants you'll always see a lot of black (and mixed-race) couples. You just don't see that as much in Pittsburgh for some reason.

In every other way, I think Pittsburgh's ahead. Better architecture. Less urban blight. More stable middle-class neighborhoods in the city proper. Higher levels of employment downtown. Etc.

[PghYinzer]

My two cents (maybe three cents)...

1. I have friends that left Swissvale and moved to South Side, because Swissvale was too far out. Any use of the Parkway East in the afternoon, even exiting before the tunnels, they found to be a miserable experience. Also, they could not walk to anything of value to them.

2. The use of the word trendy to describe stores such as Aeropostale, Gap, and Hollister almost made me spit out my coffee. Are there cities in America that do not have those stores? I wouldn’t even consider any of that when looking at a city, since I just assume they are everywhere.

I think it really depends on the person and the person’s lifestyle if they would feel that area is too far out of the city. For the past 6 years, I have either walked to work or caught a bus a block from my front door. I drive once or twice week. I literally cannot imagine moving to an area that would require me to drive on a daily basis, and it really is not a thought I would even entertain.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

My two cents (maybe three cents)...
2. The use of the word trendy to describe stores such as Aeropostale, Gap, and Hollister almost made me spit out my coffee. Are there cities in America that do not have those stores? I wouldn’t even consider any of that when looking at a city, since I just assume they are everywhere.

Ditto!

Also AE, Banana Republic, J Crew, Buckle, Abercrombie & Fitch and Starbucks.

[NYCTelevisionWriter]

Originally Posted by alastad

Cleveland, from what I understand, has everything Pittsburgh has to offer. We both have trendy clothing stores like AE, Gap, Areopostale, Hollister, Banana Republic, J Crew, Buckle, Abercrombie & Fitch, etch. etch., and we both have Starbucks and I'm sure Cleveland has to have some nice ethnic restaurants like Pittsburgh has like Casbah, Legume, etch. etch., I find it hard to believe they don't. Now Buffalo, OK, they probably don't have a Banana Republic or J crew but I'm sure they at least have an AE or Hollister or Buckle and probably a Starbucks and at least a few ethnic restaurants. Louisville same as Buffalo I'd imagine. As far as Cleveland not having as many nice neighborhoods, yeah, I could believe that, I suppose.

National chain retail stores are now considered assets?