Pittsburgh in 1975? (Bethlehem, Washington, Butler: 2014, employment, cost of)

[Goinback2011]

There is this book too. It's very good:

Homestead: The Glory and Tragedy of an American Steel Town

[Geeo]

I read that one, too. it's very good.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Geeo

Someone mentioned an in-depth book about the life and death of the steel industry in this area a few posts back. I believe the book is "And the Wolf Finally Came" by John Hoerr, A fascinating history of the expansion and implosion of the industry. There was plenty of blame to go around on all sides: international politics, government, corporate and labor.

This is the best book I've read on the subject.
I hate to nitpick, but most people don't really know that much about the many reasons steel eventually left Pittsburgh. The other thing that irks me to no end is when I read, or hear that the 70's Steelers gave the region a pick me up, after the collapse of steel. While there were many layoffs, and some contraction of the industry during the 70's, the men almost always got called back to work, as had always been the case. Steel was always cyclical, and layoffs were nothing new to people in the region. The year that the day of reckoning came was 1981, with 1983 being the year when people began to realize that the men were not ever going to be called back to work, and that the era of steel was over in Pittsburgh. This was all after the Steelers had won the 4 Super Bowls.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

This is the best book I've read on the subject.
I hate to nitpick, but most people don't really know that much about the many reasons steel eventually left Pittsburgh. The other thing that irks me to no end is when I read, or hear that the 70's Steelers gave the region a pick me up, after the collapse of steel. While there were many layoffs, and some contraction of the industry during the 70's, the men almost always got called back to work, as had always been the case. Steel was always cyclical, and layoffs were nothing new to people in the region. The year that the day of reckoning came was 1981, with 1983 being the year when people began to realize that the men were not ever going to be called back to work, and that the era of steel was over in Pittsburgh. This was all after the Steelers had won the 4 Super Bowls.

If McDonalds was paying their workers $57K per year while Burger King stuck to minimum wage, which company would survive?

I have relatives, still alive, who worked in the mills in the 60's through the early 80's when the union wages and benefits went wild. One had 3 months of paid leave during his latter years. He started in the late 1940's.

It wasn't that complicated.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

If McDonalds was paying their workers $57K per year while Burger King stuck to minimum wage, which company would survive?

I have relatives, still alive, who worked in the mills in the 60's through the early 80's when the union wages and benefits went wild. One had 3 months of paid leave during his latter years. He started in the late 1940's.

It wasn't that complicated.

That played a role, but there was much more to it than that. Steel didn't go away everywhere, it went away here, and in the rest of the northeast. There were specific reasons for that. Read one of the many good books on the subject.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...70&uid=3739256

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohisto...pages/653.html

[szug-bot]

These posts on the steel industry are so interesting to me. All good insight.

And this:

Originally Posted by Herodotus

...once local deposits of iron ore were depleted, and the huge deposits of the Mesabi Range began to be exploited, Pittsburgh was no longer the best place geographically, for the bulk of the steel industry to be located in. Chicago interests in particular, were actively trying to lure the industry west...,

I did not realize that at all.

Incredibly, the United States was still the world's foremost producer of steel as recently as 2012 (or it regained that spot). My info, off the top of my head, is definitely dated. China is probably #1 now, and we probably fluctuate between #2 and #5 annually, with Brazil and others.

So it's not like everyone was blindsided! The warning flags were flown since the 1960s, or earlier. Wow. And to think it probably wasn't as bad HERE as it was in Cleveland or other places in Ohio or Pennsylvania. The Mon Valley and lower Armstrong county, though, were devastated.

Do you think in 30 years people will look fondly at 2015? I think so - realize this: these are the best of times. I honestly believe that.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

These posts on the steel industry are so interesting to me. All good insight.

And this:



I did not realize that at all.

Incredibly, the United States was still the world's foremost producer of steel as recently as 2012 (or it regained that spot). My info, off the top of my head, is definitely dated. China is probably #1 now, and we probably fluctuate between #2 and #5 annually, with Brazil and others.

So it's not like everyone was blindsided! The warning flags were flown since the 1960s, or earlier. Wow. And to think it probably wasn't as bad HERE as it was in Cleveland or other places in Ohio or Pennsylvania. The Mon Valley and lower Armstrong county, though, were devastated.

Do you think in 30 years people will look fondly at 2015? I think so - realize this: these are the best of times. I honestly believe that.

The Pittsburgh Plus thing was very interesting. You would think that Chicago interests would have raised hell. With the country quickly expanding westward, Chicago was much better situated to take advantage of these emerging markets than Pittsburgh. However, there was benefit in the system for Chicago as well. While the system kept Pittsburgh mills competitive, The fact that the price of a ton of steel was tied to the cost of transportation from Pittsburgh meant that every time Chicago mills shipped a ton of steel to a place that was closer to them than it was to Pittsburgh, they got to keep the amount in excess of the actual shipping costs. In other words, if the cost to ship a ton of steel from Pittsburgh to Milwaukee was $12, that would be added on to the actual cost of the steel, even if the steel came from nearby Chicago, and only cost $5 to ship. The overage was pure profit for the Chicago mills. The system allowed all of the mills to make money.

[punctus_contra_punctum]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

Incredibly, the United States was still the world's foremost producer of steel as recently as 2012 (or it regained that spot). My info, off the top of my head, is definitely dated. China is probably #1 now, and we probably fluctuate between #2 and #5 annually, with Brazil and others.

I'm not sure the last time the US was the world's largest producer of steel, but it was pre-1980. Looking at the top 3 producers in 2012, China produced 731 million metric tons of raw steel, Japan produced 107 mmt and the US produced 89 mmt. Also, the the EU as a whole produced 127 mmt, how you would rank them depends on if you consider the EU a single country.

Most US steel production today is located in two areas -- the Chicagoland region and the south. A good deal of production converted from 'integrated' (making iron from ore + coke in a blast furnace, then steel in an oxygen vessel) to minimill -- remelting scrap in an electric furnace. Minimills in general have slightly higher operating costs, but require much less capital investment and are much more flexible in operations. Also, most are non-union; wages per worker are roughly the same (if not higher), but a lack of work rules makes things much more efficient.

[szug-bot]

I think Gary, IN (within Chicagoland) is pretty much the single leader for steel production in the US. US Steel has a vital mill there. I wonder if other places in IL or IN have viable mills.

Does the UK still make any steel? There industry was, like ours, eventually gutted over the years.

[850_branded]

To that point, yes. Indiana believe it or not actually produces the most steel of any state in the country.