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Old 08-26-2015, 04:01 AM
 
2,369 posts, read 2,914,210 times
Reputation: 1145

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i realize it is sports, but the amount of hate stemming from western PA over a football player signing for a year. I get it: vick did terrible things, but the man has paid his due and more so.

I just don't get it. majority of philly fans have forgiven him and moved on and accepted him.

what is it that makes eastern PA a vast contrast to western pa? I joke with my friend saying the east end is the last bastion of progress in a area(not city) that is still stuck in 18th century mentality and values.

ive lived in PGH for a year, been countless times to philly and I actually like both cities equally.

it saddens me that for all the good things Pittsburgh's being recognized for, Steeler fans who are shouting to "don't sign vick" are getting headlines across the country for all the wrong reasons. it is making the city look ass backwards and racist.

ps: in the interest of this conversation (hopefully I can get those of you I have enjoyed reading over the years here ) I want to note I am an eagles fan, just not Delaware river bound lol

 
Old 08-26-2015, 04:40 AM
Status: "**** YOU IBGINNIE, NAZI" (set 18 days ago)
 
2,401 posts, read 2,103,544 times
Reputation: 2321
The guy perpetrated violence against dogs in a systematic and organized way. He funded, and hosted dog fights at his house. Regardless of his prison time he is a terrible person and the Steelers have made yet another terrible decision. Two time accused rapist and an animal abuser heading up the offense, go team.
 
Old 08-26-2015, 04:45 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,186 posts, read 22,759,909 times
Reputation: 17399
I've forgiven Michael Vick, just as I've forgiven Ben Roethlisberger. Vick was proven guilty of a terrible crime, and Roethlisberger was at the very least guilty of sleazy and misogynistic behavior, but they both appear to have seen the light, and have kept themselves on the straight and narrow since their moments of shame. The problem is, Steeler fans tend not to be a very self-aware bunch, and I say that as a Steeler fan myself. This is how they can keep condeming Ray Lewis, Michael Vick and Ray Rice for their moments of shame while bristling at the condemnation of Ben Roethlisberger by others for his moment of shame. The fact that they can't see how hypocritical this is proves my point.

Honestly, I think most ardent sports fans around the world are full of ****. I have more respect for people who have done something terrible but are sorry for what they've done and have made a genuine effort to live better lives and become better people than I do for those who keep condemning those people for their past. It's actually reached the point where the mob outrage is so out-of-control and literally crazy that I begin to have sympathy for the wrongdoer they're targeting, because the mob's idea of proper punishment invariably exceeds the crime. The fact that no amount of punishment will ever be enough to satisfy these people reinforces my fear that our society no longer understands (or, worse, cares about) the difference between justice and revenge.

Plain and simple, if you've forgiven Ben Roethlisberger but not Michael Vick, you're a hypocrite. If you've forgiven Michael Vick but not Ben Roethlisberger, you're likewise a hypocrite. If you haven't forgiven either of them, then at least your standards are consistent despite the fact that you're dangerously judgmental and self-righteous. Personally, I've forgiven both of them, because I believe in redemption.
 
Old 08-26-2015, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,620 posts, read 77,640,448 times
Reputation: 19102
I can forgive someone for infidelity. I can forgive someone for misogyny. I can forgive someone for homophobia. I can forgive someone for racism. I can forgive someone for smoking. I can forgive someone for drinking. I can forgive someone for a lot of things if they seek redemption.

I simply have a difficult time saying "let's forgive and move on" towards a guy who contributed to the torture and abuse of helpless animals. Likewise, I have a problem saying "let's forgive and move on" towards a guy who physically or psychologically abused another human being. Michael Vick being complicit in hurting dogs makes me feel as if he has little or no respect for life in general, which makes me look at him as being inhuman and inhumane.

Surely, BarqCider, you can realize it can be more difficult to forgive someone for one transgression vs. another depending upon the severity of the action?

As far as the commentary about the East End is concerned, we're running out of room due to construction of residential rental supply not keeping pace with demand, so whether people in Beechview, Brighton Heights, Troy Hill, or Allentown like it or not we're about to start spilling over into their turfs with our liberal/progressive attitudes and our demand for Starbucks. One such aspect of our attitude is that we value the sanctity of life---human OR animal. If I profited off of the abuse and torture of animals I'd expect that there would be a contingent of individuals who would NEVER be able to forgive me, despite being good at throwing a football (as if being a good athlete is somehow a moral action in and of itself in this country of buffoons, but I digress).
 
Old 08-26-2015, 05:37 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,186 posts, read 22,759,909 times
Reputation: 17399
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
I can forgive someone for infidelity. I can forgive someone for misogyny. I can forgive someone for homophobia. I can forgive someone for racism. I can forgive someone for smoking. I can forgive someone for drinking. I can forgive someone for a lot of things if they seek redemption.

I simply have a difficult time saying "let's forgive and move on" towards a guy who contributed to the torture and abuse of helpless animals. Likewise, I have a problem saying "let's forgive and move on" towards a guy who physically or psychologically abused another human being.
You don't see the inconsistency here? Infidelity, misogyny, racism and homophobia are all forms of psychological abuse, and often physical abuse as well. Personally, I can forgive anybody who seeks redemption, provided they make good on their effort. If Saul of Tarsus (Paul the Apostle) could redeem himself, then anybody can.
 
Old 08-26-2015, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Washington County, PA
4,240 posts, read 4,921,828 times
Reputation: 2859
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarqCider View Post
i realize it is sports, but the amount of hate stemming from western PA over a football player signing for a year. I get it: vick did terrible things, but the man has paid his due and more so.

I just don't get it. majority of philly fans have forgiven him and moved on and accepted him.

what is it that makes eastern PA a vast contrast to western pa? I joke with my friend saying the east end is the last bastion of progress in a area(not city) that is still stuck in 18th century mentality and values.

ive lived in PGH for a year, been countless times to philly and I actually like both cities equally.

it saddens me that for all the good things Pittsburgh's being recognized for, Steeler fans who are shouting to "don't sign vick" are getting headlines across the country for all the wrong reasons. it is making the city look ass backwards and racist.

ps: in the interest of this conversation (hopefully I can get those of you I have enjoyed reading over the years here ) I want to note I am an eagles fan, just not Delaware river bound lol
How does, not supporting a convicted animal killer, make a city seem backwards?

Or how does is it make seem racist?

Are you generalizing an entire metropolitan area due to the opinions of a minority? That's backwards and sterotyping at its finest.

Personally I don't want him on our team, but I understand why the rooney did it. It's a good business decision. To pretend this is the first Steeler to committ a criminal act in their past proves how blind some are.
 
Old 08-26-2015, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
41,016 posts, read 18,224,042 times
Reputation: 8528
Interesting that James Harrison is rarely if ever brought up in the Hall of Shame.

Good thing they drafted Landry Jones.
 
Old 08-26-2015, 05:58 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,186 posts, read 22,759,909 times
Reputation: 17399
Quote:
Originally Posted by erieguy View Post
Interesting that James Harrison is rarely if ever brought up in the Hall of Shame.
Or Greg Lloyd, for that matter. He threatened his son by sticking the barrel of a loaded gun in his mouth, and the only reason he didn't do time was multiple hung juries. Despite that, he's adored by many of the same people who condemn Michael Vick and/or Ben Roethlisberger.
 
Old 08-26-2015, 06:03 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,992,063 times
Reputation: 17378

Seems someone posted before looking into anything. What else is new. Next.
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