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All,
Not trying to "troll" and being that I haven't read all 28 pages on this forum, I suppose I'm coming with a bit of an outside view. It seems this board in particular may be geared towards natives who have grown tired of the problems in their own city, correct me if I'm wrong, but as a transplant who's lived all over the country, I've had my own set of difficult experiences. Perhaps if a city wants to see consistent growth, the views of outsiders who may potentially move here could be taken into consideration, because given all the media hype, I feel like I've been had.
First the weather, it is what it is, we can't change the cloud cover over night, and it makes people incredibly depressed. I've lived in Alaska for 4 years and the weather here is worse than there. Now, I know I should have done my research before moving here, and I'm not making that mistake again, but yeah, people who are used to sunshine are going to have some difficulties.
The infrastructure sucks and it's impossible to navigate. Locals aren't exactly good at giving directions, and most locals drive with a "if you don't know your way around, too bad" mentality. But once again, that's not something that can be changed overnight.
The thing that is driving me away is the way non-yinzers are treated here. There is an interesting phenomenon here, where it seems everyone is afraid to leave Pittsburgh (yet everyone here knows what every other place is like). People are raised in neighborhood x, they go to pitt, cmu, or if they have a sense of adventure, wvu, then they live on their own for 2 more years before moving back to neighborhood x, 2 blocks away from mom and dad and close to the same group of people they went to high school with. Cliques never change, and all in all this can lead to closed mindedness. I have found that if you come in with any ideals other than that of what is worshiped here, then you are scum. There is no room for diversity. Being a Seahawks fan doesn't lead to friendly joking and friendly bets during football season. It leads to people throwing trash at you as you walk down the street and keying your car. Living in a mixed ethnicity family in the almost always predominantly white suburbs doesn't lead to you making friends with you entirely white neighborhood companions and enlightening them on cultural differences, perhaps even introducing them to new cuisine or something of the like. It leads to dirty looks, people pulling their children away from yours and a very difficult time making friends. People also have a hard time engaging in conversation with people they don't know. We consistently try to make friends parents of the kids my daughter plays soccer with or goes to school with. However, we did not go to high school with these people, I never wear a stillers jersey, and we are not both white Christians .... so we are not involved. Now, we have made friends with a few people, but almost all of them are transplants as well.
The next step is for someone to tell me to change this that or the other. I've taught in two school districts (one in an affluent suburb, and one city school), lived in three areas, and worked in three restaurants in varying parts of the city. It never changes. It's the mentality passed through generations of people who have never left. If you want your city to grow, invite newbies more openly and stop trying to force them to conform. Diversity is ok.
Last is the racism. I'm a white guy married to an Asian woman who has worked in a mostly white school, and an all black school. I have never heard the N word dropped so regularly in my life. Basic "research" shows that this is one of the most racist regions in the country and it is absolutely correct. You could draw a "white/black" line on a map and see the separation clear as day. Funny thing is, there are less racist kids in the all black school that I work at than anywhere. I'm not sure where it stems from, but I live in a pretty good school district, and believe you me, when I drive to work each day, the confederate flags are a flying. When I moved into my new house, our realtor was a black woman. The first introduction I got from a neighbor (who didn't hang said flag up until after we moved in) was him asking me how much trouble she gave us.
I dunno, every man has his paradise, and for many Pittsburgh can be that, but only if you grew up here.
All,
Not trying to "troll" and being that I haven't read all 28 pages on this forum, I suppose I'm coming with a bit of an outside view. It seems this board in particular may be geared towards natives who have grown tired of the problems in their own city, correct me if I'm wrong, but as a transplant who's lived all over the country, I've had my own set of difficult experiences. Perhaps if a city wants to see consistent growth, the views of outsiders who may potentially move here could be taken into consideration, because given all the media hype, I feel like I've been had.
First the weather, it is what it is, we can't change the cloud cover over night, and it makes people incredibly depressed. I've lived in Alaska for 4 years and the weather here is worse than there. Now, I know I should have done my research before moving here, and I'm not making that mistake again, but yeah, people who are used to sunshine are going to have some difficulties.
The infrastructure sucks and it's impossible to navigate. Locals aren't exactly good at giving directions, and most locals drive with a "if you don't know your way around, too bad" mentality. But once again, that's not something that can be changed overnight.
The thing that is driving me away is the way non-yinzers are treated here. There is an interesting phenomenon here, where it seems everyone is afraid to leave Pittsburgh (yet everyone here knows what every other place is like). People are raised in neighborhood x, they go to pitt, cmu, or if they have a sense of adventure, wvu, then they live on their own for 2 more years before moving back to neighborhood x, 2 blocks away from mom and dad and close to the same group of people they went to high school with. Cliques never change, and all in all this can lead to closed mindedness. I have found that if you come in with any ideals other than that of what is worshiped here, then you are scum. There is no room for diversity. Being a Seahawks fan doesn't lead to friendly joking and friendly bets during football season. It leads to people throwing trash at you as you walk down the street and keying your car. Living in a mixed ethnicity family in the almost always predominantly white suburbs doesn't lead to you making friends with you entirely white neighborhood companions and enlightening them on cultural differences, perhaps even introducing them to new cuisine or something of the like. It leads to dirty looks, people pulling their children away from yours and a very difficult time making friends. People also have a hard time engaging in conversation with people they don't know. We consistently try to make friends parents of the kids my daughter plays soccer with or goes to school with. However, we did not go to high school with these people, I never wear a stillers jersey, and we are not both white Christians .... so we are not involved. Now, we have made friends with a few people, but almost all of them are transplants as well.
The next step is for someone to tell me to change this that or the other. I've taught in two school districts (one in an affluent suburb, and one city school), lived in three areas, and worked in three restaurants in varying parts of the city. It never changes. It's the mentality passed through generations of people who have never left. If you want your city to grow, invite newbies more openly and stop trying to force them to conform. Diversity is ok.
Last is the racism. I'm a white guy married to an Asian woman who has worked in a mostly white school, and an all black school. I have never heard the N word dropped so regularly in my life. Basic "research" shows that this is one of the most racist regions in the country and it is absolutely correct. You could draw a "white/black" line on a map and see the separation clear as day. Funny thing is, there are less racist kids in the all black school that I work at than anywhere. I'm not sure where it stems from, but I live in a pretty good school district, and believe you me, when I drive to work each day, the confederate flags are a flying. When I moved into my new house, our realtor was a black woman. The first introduction I got from a neighbor (who didn't hang said flag up until after we moved in) was him asking me how much trouble she gave us.
I dunno, every man has his paradise, and for many Pittsburgh can be that, but only if you grew up here.
Speaking as a transplant who has been here for 11 years, my experience has overall been very different than yours. I'm perfectly happy here. I miss the east coast, but it would have been too expensive there for me to live the sort of lifestyle that I have here.
Anyway, on your individual points.
1. You may be right about roads and driving. Honestly since I've lived here I've tried to rely on mass transit and cycling as much as possible, so I don't drive too much. Actually, given my wife is kind of a control freak about driving, and insists on driving if we're both in the car, I probably drive 1-2 times a week tops.
2. I can't say I relate to your "non-yinzers are shunned" point at all. I'd say my social networks since I've been here have tended to be around half locals and half transplants. I don't think there has been any deep distinction between them. I'll be the first to admit that I don't socialize much with the "high yinzer" type because I don't have much in common with them (for example, I hate sports). I am also not that social of a person in general. But overall people seem much more warm and outgoing here than they did in New England growing up.
3. I'm not sure that racism is worse in Pittsburgh, but it is much more explicit than I was used to. Before I married my wife I was dating a black woman, and some of the comments I got from friends of mine who were the same age and raised locally were...disturbing. People do causally drop the N word in conversation here in a way which doesn't make me comfortable. But honestly I felt like there was just as much social segregation where I grew up between the races. Arguably more, because there weren't may cases of working-class white people and black people living together in urban areas, which you see all the time here.
Speaking as a transplant who has been here for 11 years, my experience has overall been very different than yours. I'm perfectly happy here. I miss the east coast, but it would have been too expensive there for me to live the sort of lifestyle that I have here.
Anyway, on your individual points.
1. You may be right about roads and driving. Honestly since I've lived here I've tried to rely on mass transit and cycling as much as possible, so I don't drive too much. Actually, given my wife is kind of a control freak about driving, and insists on driving if we're both in the car, I probably drive 1-2 times a week tops.
2. I can't say I relate to your "non-yinzers are shunned" point at all. I'd say my social networks since I've been here have tended to be around half locals and half transplants. I don't think there has been any deep distinction between them. I'll be the first to admit that I don't socialize much with the "high yinzer" type because I don't have much in common with them (for example, I hate sports). I am also not that social of a person in general. But overall people seem much more warm and outgoing here than they did in New England growing up.
3. I'm not sure that racism is worse in Pittsburgh, but it is much more explicit than I was used to. Before I married my wife I was dating a black woman, and some of the comments I got from friends of mine who were the same age and raised locally were...disturbing. People do causally drop the N word in conversation here in a way which doesn't make me comfortable. But honestly I felt like there was just as much social segregation where I grew up between the races. Arguably more, because there weren't may cases of working-class white people and black people living together in urban areas, which you see all the time here.
In regards to #3, my white neighbor who has been is married to a black man for decades, drops the N word all the time. It is always in regard to kids that are creating trouble in the neighborhood and half the time I don't even think the kids are black.
I just automatically got the impression it was a troll from this piece they wrote.
So their solution is to move to Georgia?
So open minded of you regarding the Troll Tarring. You may be proving a valid point of the OP's.
The Atlanta Georgia area is one of the LEAST racist areas I have lived. When we relocated from that lovely ( in so many ways) community to Pennsylvania our children were shocked by the racism they observed in their school. My Caucasian daughters of middle school age could not believe what they were seeing and hearing. One, in some sort of classroom discussion, pointed out that she found more racism and problems related to it, in the "North" than she ever experienced in Atlanta Ga.
Once again, not trying to be a troll, just offering my input from my experiences. Everyone who lives in any city is going to have a different experience, but if you want your city to grow, it never hurts to take the insights of others into consideration. Sure there are white trash rednecks in the south, I lived there long ago, but the major cities that I visited, for the most part, seemed to be considerably more accepting and progressive than the rural areas. This goes for almost any city, except here I find the rednecky racism to be just as bad in the city/burbs as in the rural regions. But just one man's perspective.
Yes, compared to many East Coast cities I've been to, Boston, New York, Baltimore, etc. people here can be very friendly. But compared to many other places I've been, no so much. It's all relative to your experiences. There's not doubt that a transplant can live here and not have a single bad encounter for 30 years ... call it luck. Or perhaps it's merely coincidence that I run into all of the people who don't seem to jive with an overall West Coast mentality .... once again, call it luck. You do you, not trying to change who you are or convince you to move anywhere or stay anywhere. I'm outta here next June either way, just stating my point that those who come from elsewhere also put into your local economy so treat them with such regard.
Even if they aren't transplants, I've heard numerous complains at places I've worked from visiting sports fans about the way they were treated at games .... stating people here just go to far. Sure, have fun and engage in friendly banter, but remember, they bought tickets to YOUR stadium, are enjoying YOUR refreshments and stating in YOUR hotels. Putting into YOUR economy and leaving with a perception of YOUR city to tell all their friends about.
Pittsburgh has all the components to be the next boom town, I'm just making my suggestions on how to approach this for when the next out of towner takes my place. Cost of living is affordable, but for me, just not worth saving the money.
Pittsburgh is mighty whitey and the black middle class here is very small. The North has a different kind of racism than the South, but it's still racism.
By the way, I regularly see Confederate flags when I drive through Gwinnett County.
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