Is the geography of Pittsburgh's murders changing? (Wilkinsburg, Washington: middle-class, section 8)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Pretty simple. Stiffer penalties for those that use them.

The law abiding citizens that acquire them legally aren't the problem.

It's nice to see how you have a simple answer to everything. The problem is there conflicting evidence whether deterrence works, particularly in adults. If would-be shooters do not actually alter their behavior due to fear of potential jail time, then the only way to actually reduce crime through harsh sentencing is to imprison an even larger proportion of the potential suspect class (people who have been brought in on lesser charges and thus are likely to be shooters in the future). This would over time become exorbitantly expensive, necessitating much higher taxes. Theoretically speaking, it would of course work. The question is, is it the most effective solution.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by norcider

Likewise, if a gun used in a crime can be traced to an owner who never reported it stolen, sold, traded, the last person who had it legally should face stiff penalties. Straw purchases and the like. No second chances, straight to prison for a mandatory sentence.

That's obvious. They should all face stiff penalties and those that use the gun should, as mentioned, never be able to walk outside of prison again.

Always interesting are those that choose to blame the innocent and defend the criminals, however.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It's nice to see how you have a simple answer to everything. The problem is there conflicting evidence whether deterrence works, particularly in adults. If would-be shooters do not actually alter their behavior due to fear of potential jail time, then the only way to actually reduce crime through harsh sentencing is to imprison an even larger proportion of the potential suspect class (people who have been brought in on lesser charges and thus are likely to be shooters in the future). This would over time become exorbitantly expensive, necessitating much higher taxes. Theoretically speaking, it would of course work. The question is, is it the most effective solution.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

You want less gun violence, let it be known that when you commit the crime you're in for life, rather than the revolving door there is now.

I don't expect much higher taxes. I expect less gun violence with stiffer penalties...which "theoretically speaking, it would of course work".

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

You want less gun violence, let it be known that when you commit the crime you're in for life, rather than the revolving door there is now.

I dunno about Pennsylvania, but I know in general the reason so many criminals get parole is because there usually are simply not enough prison cells to hold them all for their full sentences.

I know for awhile in California the average murderer who was parole eligible got out within 7 years, mostly because space needed to be made for all the mandatory minimum drug violators.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I dunno about Pennsylvania, but I know in general the reason so many criminals get parole is because there usually are simply not enough prison cells to hold them all for their full sentences.

I know for awhile in California the average murderer who was parole eligible got out within 7 years, mostly because space needed to be made for all the mandatory minimum drug violators.

I expect capital punishment for those that take a life will solve that problem. There's no excuse for letting a murderer walk.

[Merge]

Yes... the US would make a great test case.


Let's, for instance, say that the US had the highest rate of gun violence in the world... and then let's imagine the US also had the highest rates of incarceration.


U.S. Has More Guns - And Gun Deaths - Than Any Other Country, Study Finds - ABC News


World Map Of Incarceration Rates - Business Insider


How would a scientist make sense of that data? Would they say that high rates of incarceration are correlated with a decrease in gun violence? (HINT: This is only for the CD posters who "love numbers")

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It's nice to see how you have a simple answer to everything. The problem is there conflicting evidence whether deterrence works, particularly in adults. If would-be shooters do not actually alter their behavior due to fear of potential jail time, then the only way to actually reduce crime through harsh sentencing is to imprison an even larger proportion of the potential suspect class (people who have been brought in on lesser charges and thus are likely to be shooters in the future). This would over time become exorbitantly expensive, necessitating much higher taxes. Theoretically speaking, it would of course work. The question is, is it the most effective solution.

Most people involved in shootings have prior firearm violations so the idea would be to get them put away before they murder someone (& straw purchasers as also alluded too). If you stop imprisoning people for more innocuous crimes then you shouldn't incur much more in terms of cost.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Merge

Yes... the US would make a great test case.


Let's, for instance, say that the US had the highest rate of gun violence in the world... and then let's imagine the US also had the highest rates of incarceration.


U.S. Has More Guns - And Gun Deaths - Than Any Other Country, Study Finds - ABC News


World Map Of Incarceration Rates - Business Insider


How would a scientist make sense of that data? Would they say that high rates of incarceration are correlated with a decrease in gun violence? (HINT: This is only for the CD posters who "love numbers")

How does the sentencing in the US compare to other countries?

Hint: this is for posters who disregard numbers and choose to defend the guilty.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Merge

Yes... the US would make a great test case.

Correct, the current system does not work as is hence the suggestion to change it.

[norcider]

Blow the system up. Change the laws regarding private firearm transactions, 1st time stiff penalties for owning a firearm illegally/using one in a crime, no more excuses, get it done. Sell or gift a gun used in a crime, straight to prison. All this will never happen because the NRA has Washington by the short and curlies.