COVID 19 stats - ALLEGHENY COUNTY and beyond (Nixon, Republic: purchasing, salaries)

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've been trying to avoid this thread, but I do want to say I think it's very, very sad that a significant proportion of Americans - as represented by some of the comments on this thread - think that in a time of national crisis, when tens of thousands of Americans are dying per week, the most important thing is defeating a political faction they're opposed to. People who think other Americans are a bigger threat to them than catching a disease which could possibly kill them.

I don't really think COVID-19 is a left/right issue. If you look to Europe, there's really no association with the ideology of the governing parties and how effective they've been at managing the crisis. There's absolutely no reason why this needs to become part of the partisan culture wars. Indeed, lots of GOP governors, like in Ohio, Maryland, and West Virginia, who have been as aggressive regarding containment policies as Democratic governors - and all three have 70%+ approval ratings now.

Even if everything opened up, it wouldn't "save the economy" regardless. Sweden is much talked about because they have decided to only have voluntary social distancing measures. Whatever you think of their results (more deaths per capita than the U.S. as a whole, though not as bad as New York) they are still projecting an economic contraction of 7%-10% this year - which is basically identical to European countries like Germany, France, and the U.K. which did lock down. There's simply no way we're not in a deep recession for the remainder of the year at the very least.

10’s of thousands of Americans per week are dying from the virus?

Let’s not act like the Dems don’t want the economy to fall flat on its face to make it look like Trump has failed in order to try to get him out of office. So many are begging for socialism.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I don't really think COVID-19 is a left/right issue. If you look to Europe, there's really no association with the ideology of the governing parties and how effective they've been at managing the crisis. There's absolutely no reason why this needs to become part of the partisan culture wars. Indeed, lots of GOP governors, like in Ohio, Maryland, and West Virginia, who have been as aggressive regarding containment policies as Democratic governors - and all three have 70%+ approval ratings now.

i agree its not a partisan issue, but its not like there is NOT political advantage in other countries. we aren't talking bloody revolutions, but Trudeau is being pelted with criticism, and in Italy....well, they are notorious for decades long political drama:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/ital...isions/1832954

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

No, you said that someone who thought dealers did shady practices wouldn't be bilked if they were educated buyer. Good distinction there! You also said making note of shady practices makes that person sound like they have a poor credit rating.

I understand where you're coming from now that you're repeatedly trying to distance yourself from things you've said--I certainly wouldn't want to be pinned for saying things that are that dumb either!

I think an interesting part on top of that is that somehow you're pretending the dealerships are helping drive prices down for consumers because of more competition. However, they're middlemen, and one that you've claimed aren't going anywhere because of the great profit they make. So if these middlemen are making great profit, and yet there's an alternative direct to customer model, then how again is this better for the consumer? And I didn't say that dealerships are going to evaporate--I'm saying that I hope they get the screws turned on them so they have to greatly change their practices. I'm aware that dealerships have been very aggressive in lawsuits trying to prevent direct client sales from automakers that attempt to do so.

Lmao. Again, never said that but please do quote the post/s where you say I did.

I’m not pretending anything. A lockdown to be unable to sell vehicles and unemployment rates are driving the market down. The factories are offering huge incentives on new vehicles because of this.

Are the dealerships trying to prevent sales directly or are the automakers trying to do it? Big difference in the 2.

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've been trying to avoid this thread, but I do want to say I think it's very, very sad that a significant proportion of Americans - as represented by some of the comments on this thread - think that in a time of national crisis, when tens of thousands of Americans are dying per week, the most important thing is defeating a political faction they're opposed to. People who think other Americans are a bigger threat to them than catching a disease which could possibly kill them.

I don't really think COVID-19 is a left/right issue. If you look to Europe, there's really no association with the ideology of the governing parties and how effective they've been at managing the crisis. There's absolutely no reason why this needs to become part of the partisan culture wars. Indeed, lots of GOP governors, like in Ohio, Maryland, and West Virginia, who have been as aggressive regarding containment policies as Democratic governors - and all three have 70%+ approval ratings now.

Even if everything opened up, it wouldn't "save the economy" regardless. Sweden is much talked about because they have decided to only have voluntary social distancing measures. Whatever you think of their results (more deaths per capita than the U.S. as a whole, though not as bad as New York) they are still projecting an economic contraction of 7%-10% this year - which is basically identical to European countries like Germany, France, and the U.K. which did lock down. There's simply no way we're not in a deep recession for the remainder of the year at the very least.

But the question is why is this so different than the Hong Kong Flu? It isn't the coronavirus or the Hong Kong Flu that was the issue, it is how humans reacted to them and the difference. We lost over a million in the Hong Kong Flu when people didn't live as long and were much healthier (leaner) than today. I think people are missing this. It isn't the deaths or the virus, it is how we reacted to it. We demand our leaders to react out of fear. I think you are smart enough to get what I am saying.

Don't misunderstand my posts on this. I am trying to understand why our reactions on a global level are so wildly different between these two very similar situation. It is mind-blowing to me, but a very interesting study. The virus didn't kill the global economy. It was our reaction to the virus. This NEEDS to be studied and I am sure it will, but the media will not post about it, so you have to find it in academia somewhere. I do have some connections that I will be using a year from now.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Lmao. Again, never said that but please do quote the post/s where you say I did.

I’m not pretending anything. A lockdown to be unable to sell vehicles and unemployment rates are driving the market down. The factories are offering huge incentives on new vehicles because of this.

Are the dealerships trying to prevent sales directly or are the automakers trying to do it? Big difference in the 2.

Read your own posts--you referenced these repeatedly. You're the one who brought up "educated" buyers and you're the one who went on about sounding like someone who has poor credit rating. Again, it's totally understandable that you want to distance yourself from things you've said--I would want to do the same if I said things that silly.

The dealerships are the ones that generally present the state lawsuits. The automakers only make a presence when the argument revolves around how it gives other automakers that don't have to deal with dealerships an unfair advantage from being able to not have that middleman. Unfortunately, they can't make much of a presence there, because the potential pushback from their dealership networks wouldn't work out very well for them.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by gg

But the question is why is this so different than the Hong Kong Flu? It isn't the coronavirus or the Hong Kong Flu that was the issue, it is how humans reacted to them and the difference. We lost over a million in the Hong Kong Flu when people didn't live as long and were much healthier (leaner) than today. I think people are missing this. It isn't the deaths or the virus, it is how we reacted to it. We demand our leaders to react out of fear. I think you are smart enough to get what I am saying.

Don't misunderstand my posts on this. I am trying to understand why our reactions on a global level are so wildly different between these two very similar situation. It is mind-blowing to me, but a very interesting study. The virus didn't kill the global economy. It was our reaction to the virus. This NEEDS to be studied and I am sure it will, but the media will not post about it, so you have to find it in academia somewhere. I do have some connections that I will be using a year from now.

Are you talking about SARS outbreak in 2003 when you say the Hong Kong Flu? If you are, there were some markedly different intrinsic characteristics between that and COVID-19 in terms of severity and ease of transmission.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Read your own posts--you referenced these repeatedly. You're the one who brought up "educated" buyers and you're the one who went on about sounding like someone who has poor credit rating. Again, it's totally understandable that you want to distance yourself from things you've said--I would want to do the same if I said things that silly.

The dealerships are the ones that generally present the state lawsuits. The automakers only make a presence when the argument revolves around how it gives other automakers that don't have to deal with dealerships an unfair advantage from being able to not have that middleman. Unfortunately, they can't make much of a presence there, because the potential pushback from their dealership networks wouldn't work out very well for them.

I would love to see these things that you say I said. Post them up.

Please post where individual dealerships have brought these lawsuits.

What’s funny is that you’re promoting a model that has almost zero market share, you won’t buy their product, and the most amount of profit is already built into it.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by erieguy

I would love to see these things that you say I said. Post them up.

Please post where individual dealerships have brought these lawsuits.

What’s funny is that you’re promoting a model that has almost zero market share, you won’t buy their product, and the most amount of profit is already built into it.

You honestly can't remember saying these things or you don't know how to use the search function?


It's dealership associations that do the lawsuits and lobbying--oddly enough, those are made up of dealerships. Here's an old news article from Connecticut: https://www.greenwichtime.com/busine...s-13467714.php

Yep, not in the market for a vehicle right now and Tesla doesn't currently make a vehicle that I want. I'm not against EVs, but I like pony cars, minivans, and hot hatches. They don't sell any of those. Instead, motorbike suits me just fine.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

You honestly can't remember saying these things or you don't know how to use the search function?


It's dealership associations that do the lawsuits and lobbying--oddly enough, those are made up of dealerships. Here's an old news article from Connecticut: https://www.greenwichtime.com/busine...s-13467714.php

Yep, not in the market for a vehicle right now and Tesla doesn't currently make a vehicle that I want. I'm not against EVs, but I like pony cars, minivans, and hot hatches. They don't sell any of those. Instead, motorbike suits me just fine.

I didn’t say them, but please do post them and prove me wrong.

Yep, I know that. Not the dealerships themselves, and I already said I’m glad these automakers have been granted the ability to operate how they want. More competition the better.

Lol, okay.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by erieguy

I didn’t say them, but please do post them and prove me wrong.

Yep, I know that. Not the dealerships themselves, and I already said I’m glad these automakers have been granted the ability to operate how they want. More competition the better.

Lol, okay.

Yea, I'm not going to do the work for you. Cute.

What do you think participates in dealership associations if not dealershops? Where are you trying to even go with that line of thought? At least we're agreed that more competition from the overturning of some of the laws disallowing direct sales in some states will lead to more competition and is better. Great!