How are small local restaurants and cafes going to survive the winter? (Erie: how much, delivery)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by erieguy

There’s already been serious side affects from it...and as Fauci has proven, even world leading epidemiologists don’t know what they’re talking about.

Wow, talk about Trump hate, you have it bad for Fauci.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Wow, talk about Trump hate, you have it bad for Fauci.

Nah, just pointing out he had no idea what he was talking about to begin with, so why would he know about long term vaccine affects?

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

Thinking about one other angle on this -- and to be clear, at this point, I'm basically just arguing that, while you should object to and oppose Gov. Wolf as strongly as you desire, maybe stop short of calling him a dictator, Nazi, or monarch, and/or advocating for his replacement by extra-constitutional means.

Originally Posted by tyovan4

How would you refer to a government in which the executive branch rules by decree enabled by an indefinite state of emergency? In which a majority of the legislature votes to end the state of emergency, but in which the executive's allies in the judiciary block the legislative majority from ending the state of emergency?

I've been very open with you Doowlee34, and I've addressed all of your questions. Please give me the same courtesy and tell me how you would refer to a government that I have described above.

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

LOL "science". As if you know more than the worlds leading epidemiologists who have been involved in work that is literally unprecedented in human history.

Pardon me for being skeptical about a vaccine that's been rushed out under the most intense political and economic pressure that the world's seen, and approved by the health authorities of a country that has continually misled its citizens during the pandemic that the vaccine was meant to end.

And yes this is "science" because long-term studies about the efficacy and safety of the vaccine have not had a chance to be conducted. We're short-cutting the scientific method and then those of us who don't blindly follow the new theology of "science" are sneered at by the likes of you.

We believe that the public should be fully informed that vaccines, though effective in preventing infections, may have long term adverse effects. An educated public will probably increasingly demand proper safety studies before widespread immunisation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114674/

In some cases, the approval of a new drug is expedited. Accelerated Approval can be applied to promising therapies that treat a serious or life-threatening condition and provide therapeutic benefit over available therapies. This approach allows for the approval of a drug that demonstrates an effect on a “surrogate endpoint” that is reasonably likely to predict clinical benefit, or on a clinical endpoint that occurs earlier but may not be as robust as the standard endpoint used for approval. This approval pathway is especially useful when the drug is meant to treat a disease whose course is long, and an extended period of time is needed to measure its effect. After the drug enters the market, the drug maker is required to conduct post-marketing clinical trials to verify and describe the drug’s benefit. If further trials fail to verify the predicted clinical benefit, FDA may withdraw approval.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/developmen...-process-drugs

The FDA bases its decision on whether to accept the proposed surrogate or intermediate clinical endpoint on the scientific support for that endpoint. Studies that demonstrate a drug’s effect on a surrogate or intermediate clinical endpoint must be “adequate and well controlled” as required by the FD&C Act.

Using surrogate or intermediate clinical endpoints can save valuable time in the drug approval process. For example, instead of having to wait to learn if a drug actually extends survival for cancer patients, the FDA may approve a drug based on evidence that the drug shrinks tumors, because tumor shrinkage is considered reasonably likely to predict a real clinical benefit. In this example, an approval based upon tumor shrinkage can occur far sooner than waiting to learn whether patients actually lived longer. The drug company will still need to conduct studies to confirm that tumor shrinkage actually predicts that patients will live longer. These studies are known as phase 4 confirmatory trials.

Where confirmatory trials verify clinical benefit, FDA will generally terminate the requirement. Approval of a drug may be withdrawn or the labeled indication of the drug changedif trials fail to verify clinical benefit or do not demonstrate sufficient clinical benefit to justify the risks associated with the drug (e.g., show a significantly smaller magnitude or duration of benefit than was anticipated based on the observed effect on the surrogate).
https://www.fda.gov/patients/fast-tr...rated-approval

Vaccines are the best defense we have against infectious diseases, but no vaccine is actually 100% safe or effective for everyone because each person’s body reacts to vaccines differently.
...
Phase 3 trials are the next step, unless the vaccine is ineffective or causes health problems, and are expanded to involve several hundred to several thousand volunteers. Typically, these trials last several years. Because the vaccinated group can be compared to those who have not received the vaccine, researchers are able to identify true reactions.
...
While clinical trials provide important information on vaccine safety, the data are somewhat limited because of the relatively small number (hundreds to thousands) of study participants. Rare side effects and delayed reactions might not be evident until the vaccine is administered to millions of people. Therefore, the federal government established the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), a surveillance system to monitor adverse events following vaccination.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/en...ory/index.html

What I've quote above is science. Its how things are normally done.

Sorry that you've swallowed the narrative of "science" that has been pimped out through the media during these abnormal times.
I'll take my chances with the disease as opposed to taking my chances with the long-term unknowns of a vaccine thats been approved by a government, and by that government's public health officials, who have admitted that they've mislead us during this pandemic due to having ulterior motives that they didn't think we could handle hearing.

[erieguy]

^^^^
Bingo

“My body my choice” comes to mind.

[PghPatriot]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

Pardon me for being skeptical about a vaccine that's been rushed out under the most intense political and economic pressure that the world's seen, and approved by the health authorities of a country that has continually misled its citizens during the pandemic that the vaccine was meant to end.

And yes this is "science" because long-term studies about the efficacy and safety of the vaccine have not had a chance to be conducted. We're short-cutting the scientific method and then those of us who don't blindly follow the new theology of "science" are sneered at by the likes of you.

Yeah, that's bull****. there has been no short cutting, and calling science theology is asinine.

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I'll take my chances with the disease as opposed to taking my chances with the long-term unknowns of a vaccine thats been approved by a government, and by that government's public health officials, who have admitted that they've mislead us during this pandemic due to having ulterior motives that they didn't think we could handle hearing.

Well, I guess you should hope that you don't die then.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

Yeah, that's bull****. there has been no short cutting, and calling science theology is asinine.





Well, I guess you should hope that you don't die then.

9-10 months for a vaccine for which many claim to be a doomsday virus, is certainly rushed, and there’s already been serious side effects. What’s to say there aren’t going to be more serious effects later?

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

Yeah, that's bull****. there has been no short cutting, and calling science theology is asinine.

I put my big-boy pants on and provided facts and cited sources to explain my viewpoint. Would you like to join me in doing the same?

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I put my big-boy pants on and provided facts and cited sources to explain my viewpoint. Would you like to join me in doing the same?

Bingo

It’s interesting how because science is often unpopular when actual stats and facts because of it are touted.

[PghPatriot]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I put my big-boy pants on and provided facts and cited sources to explain my viewpoint. Would you like to join me in doing the same?

You spit out a bunch of documents that state existing procedures, that have little to do with COVID.


If you're truly curious why this is different, start here.



https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1




If you're anything like your like-"minded" friend on here, I'm certain that you're being disingenuous and aren't interested in becoming educated.


But if you want to be a luddite and ignore science, I won't cry when you die being unhooked from a ventilator.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by PghPatriot

You spit out a bunch of documents that state existing procedures, that have little to do with COVID.


If you're truly curious why this is different, start here.



https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1




If you're anything like your like-"minded" friend on here, I'm certain that you're being disingenuous and aren't interested in becoming educated.


But if you want to be a luddite and ignore science, I won't cry when you die being unhooked from a ventilator.

Many disagree, and there’s certainly reason to.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-vaccines.html