Still torn between Pittsburgh and Denver (wages, living in, cost of)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

True. If it is his house then he is allowed to do what he wants. It's when you go out doing work that is in direct competition to union-affiliated contractors is when you get in trouble.

Now, I'm not sure how the union would have felt about his union friends helping him build his house that was new construction.

Afterall, his friends weren't being paid. They were volunteering.

Sort of like an Amish barn raising. You help me build my house, I'll help you build yours.

It could be argued that falls in line with volunteering for habitats for humanity.

He and his family are members of humanity!

[worldwanderer]

Originally Posted by Hopes

He says it comes down to affordability, but that's only one factor.

Even though Phoenix has sunshine, the cost of living is higher than Denver and the lifestyle is suburban hell.

Even though Pittsburgh's cost of living is 10% less than Denver, I'm guessing that he thinks sunshine is worth 10%.

I don't know who told you that Phoenix is more expensive than Denver, but it ain't true. Phoenix is text book sunbelt sprawl 101, and the housing prices there, along with the rents reflect that. And I don't care if one of those cost/comparisons says different either.

Phoenix and the surrounding area, especially now, has some of the most affordable new construction housing prices of any major metro city in the country.

Unless you're trying to compare areas like Scottsdale, Phoenix is a much cheaper place to live than Denver. Any their property taxes in the Phoenix area are beyond low.

[Bench Warmer]

Originally Posted by worldwanderer

I don't know who told you that Phoenix is more expensive than Denver, but it ain't true. Phoenix is text book sunbelt sprawl 101, and the housing prices there, along with the rents reflect that. And I don't care if one of those cost/comparisons says different either.

Phoenix and the surrounding area, especially now, has some of the most affordable new construction housing prices of any major metro city in the country.

Unless you're trying to compare areas like Scottsdale, Phoenix is a much cheaper place to live than Denver. Any their property taxes in the Phoenix area are beyond low.

That's true. She may have researched the matter and found that Phoenix was more expensive than Denver (thanks to old data). Phoenix was more expensive for a minute right before the bubble busted.. Denver home prices have stayed the same for the most part.. Denver was always more expensive.. Phoenix exploded and became more expensive for about 5 years.. Now that Phoenix is back down to earth, Denver once again became more expensive........... justifiably so!

[worldwanderer]

Originally Posted by Bench Warmer

That's true. She may have researched the matter and found that Phoenix was more expensive than Denver (thanks to old data). Phoenix was more expensive for a minute right before the bubble busted.. Denver home prices have stayed the same for the most part.. Denver was always more expensive.. Phoenix exploded and became more expensive for about 5 years.. Now that Phoenix is back down to earth, Denver once again became more expensive........... justifiably so!

I had a pretty long post, and I lost my connection!

Even during the "boom", Phoenix had/has way more affordable housing then Denver. Not to mention dirt cheap property taxes. New construction homes around ther Phoenix area that were under 200K, are/where a dime a dozen, even during the "boom".

[Fiddlehead]

On this Denver vs. Phoenix sidethread. I would suggest you think about convenient housing and location. My impression is that Phoenix overbuilt huge subdivisions way out into the desert because many of the "buyers" we actually RE "infestors" from S. California who only bought them to flip them. Those homes have crashed of course, but they were never conveniently located. How do nice homes within say 5-10 miles of downtown compare? Just curious.

[worldwanderer]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

On this Denver vs. Phoenix sidethread. I would suggest you think about convenient housing and location. My impression is that Phoenix overbuilt huge subdivisions way out into the desert because many of the "buyers" we actually RE "infestors" from S. California who only bought them to flip them. Those homes have crashed of course, but they were never conveniently located. How do nice homes within say 5-10 miles of downtown compare? Just curious.

First of all, that's what sunbelt sprawl is all about, "sprawl". Convience has nothing to do with it. Second, almost any city in the country, when you talk about inner city neighborhoods and "new" construction, you're almost always talking about condos. Sometimes townhouses, but more so condos. The housing stock in the actual city of Phoenix, to me is crappy.

[worldwanderer]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Funny how I was thinking the opposite. I'm very college educated, but I don't have many 'SKILLS', so when you are speaking of $30/hour, that sounds really good to me! I wish someone stressed the importance of gaining skills, rather than degrees. I have two generally worthless MA degrees, where if I'm lucky I could teach at a community college at $40,000 or so...yet again if I had a SKILL, I could do that skill or teach that skill (more employable, etc.)

---

I was thinking to ask however...since you know MA & AZ...and so many new housing everywhere in AZ...what's your take on the QUALITY of all that housing? It appears very cheaply made...is it?

In 2009', $30/hour sounds really good to you? Really? If you're single with no kids maybe. Raising a family in any major metro city on less than that is barely doable.

[worldwanderer]

Originally Posted by Bench Warmer

That's what makes this difficult decision. I enjoy sunshine.. Not just for the sake of it being sunny outside... You have to remember, I'm an electrician.. Constantly exposed to the elements. I prefer to work in clear conditions..

Pittsburgh sounds like a perfect match for me. I'm just concerned about a couple of things. Weather and work. The sun shines on average 45% of the time in Pittsburgh. That's not horrible, but I recall being irritated about the weather in Boston (where the sun is shining 54% of the time).

I just felt like plans were always being screwed up thanks to weather. I don't know if it was just a bad attitude or what, but I always felt like I was trapped in the house. Plus, working in the cold winter rains is awful. I still have yet to hear back from the union in Pittsburgh about work. For all I know they could be really slow and not looking for another electrician.

Denver on the other hand is one of the busiest in the nation right now. They estimate that they have at least 5 years of work on the books right now. That's a huge plus. Also, I hold a New Hampshire electrical licenses, which reciprocates to Colorado. I wouldn't have to re-test in order to become a "Journeyman" electrician. That's a huge plus also.

I haven't heard back from PA about how they license their electricians. I haven't heard back from the IBEW in pittsburgh either about how much work they have upcoming..

What I do know is, Denver & Pittsburgh I.B.E.W pay about the same ($30 an hour). That's an $8 raise over what I'm making now. Pittsburgh is a lot less expensive than Denver. Either way, as long as I can stay busy with the work, I'll be better off financially than I am here in Phoenix. I make 45K a year and paying 1K a month to rent a single family house. I'd like to keep my 1K rent payment in either city.. It can be done in Pittsburgh easily, or so you guys tell me. In Denver, it wouldn't be as easy, but it can be done. Even if I bumped it up to 1200 a month, I'd still be better off compared to my salary than I am here in Phoenix. Work might dictate where I go next. If Local 5 tells me they don't have a lot coming up, then I guess here I come Denver.

Pittsburgh only really has 1 con. That's the weather. I love its location. It's within a days drive of every city that actually matters in this country. It's closer to family. It's cheaper. I just think the weather might make me feel blue. I guess another bad thing is all these reports of bad air quality. I still am shocked that Pittsburgh has one of the worst air qualities in the whole country!! I can't believe it!

I wish I could spend a few months in Pittsburgh to see what all this cloudy weather is about..

I don't mean this as an insult, but your age is starting to show. You'll understand when you get a little older that "sunshine" will not deterime your level of happiness in life.

Pittsburgh's weather is very similiar to the pacific northwest. But we get more snow during the winter instead of drizzle. The east cost gets way more sunshine than Pittsburgh could even dream of. But Pittsburgh summer weather is some of the best outside of the westcoast in term of comfortable moderate weather. Only someone from the west cost can complain that Pittsburgh summers are humid. Cause the east coast is way hotter and more humid than Pittsburgh.

You say the "only con to Pittsburgh is the weather". I got news for you, if that's the case, that's about as perfect as it'll get. Every city has hang-ups, including Pittsburgh.

You say that Pittsburgh is only 10% more cloudy than Boston, it's "no big deal". Well, that comes out to 36 more cloudy days a year. Or 5 solid weeks more of cloudy days, however you look at it.

[Bench Warmer]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

On this Denver vs. Phoenix sidethread. I would suggest you think about convenient housing and location. My impression is that Phoenix overbuilt huge subdivisions way out into the desert because many of the "buyers" we actually RE "infestors" from S. California who only bought them to flip them. Those homes have crashed of course, but they were never conveniently located. How do nice homes within say 5-10 miles of downtown compare? Just curious.

They are older homes.. Hit or miss if you ask me.. Some are realllly nice.. others are like shacks...

[Bench Warmer]

Originally Posted by worldwanderer

In 2009', $30/hour sounds really good to you? Really? If you're single with no kids maybe. Raising a family in any major metro city on less than that is barely doable.

amen