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They were involuntary martyrs to Islams universal agenda. They did not matter to Islam, as in the end, the terrorist act served it's ultimate purpose.
They did not matter to al-Qaeda... but they meant a great deal to this country. Hopefully someday in a fit of rare rationality you might learn to understand the difference.
...it isn't any America that can be found in our founding documents, and it isn't the America which is exemplified by the Constitution.
I guess that is what distinguishes liberals from these so-called conservatives, while claiming fealty to the Constitution they are the first to will jettison it, whole cloth, when it serves their fascist, a word I use very sparingly, inclinations.
What is wrong with you people? It is a matter of the proposed location that is creating an issue. Not the existence of a mosque in general. Get off your high liberal horse before you call all conservatives, or anyone that disagrees with you, a fascist.
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Originally Posted by ovcatto
They did not matter to al-Qaeda... but they meant a great deal to this country. Hopefully someday in a fit of rare rationality you might learn to understand the difference.
You are reminding me of a woman I met from Turkey. She said, "You Americans don't even realize what you are doing. You are losing your freedom by your freedom."
So we need to restrict freedom to remain free? That's - well, that's pretty stupid. There are many roads to tyranny, and one certainly is the argument that people obviously have their freedom, it's just they can't be allowed to use it - like Newt Gingrich and a lot of the posters here have been stating.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
(Bloomberg) -- New York City voters, by an almost 2- to-1 ratio, oppose a plan by a Muslim group to build a mosque and cultural center two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to a Quinnipiac University poll.
And most Alabamians were against desegregation. Constitutional rights are not subject to vote, luckily.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
Cordoba, in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule... Muslim Cordobans invaded and conquered Spain, sold its inhabitants into slavery, provided a base for slaver raids into other parts of Europe, and ruled by the sword in much of the caliphate.
As if they could have picked a name that would satisfy anyone posting on "Atlas Shrugs".
Do you know when the "Golden Age" of Judaism in Spain was? Correct, under the Cordoba Caliphate. Islam was certainly on top and life was tough and uncertain, but for the age (8th-11th century), there was a pretty unique timeframe of coexistence - so much that Jews and minor Christian sects traveled there in droves, to escape persecution in Christian Europe.
"Ruled by the sword"? The sword was what you ruled with in the 9th century. If you didn't, you'd stop ruling right quick.
(Incidentally, "Muslim Cordobans" didn't invade Spain - if they were Cordobans, they were already there, what with Cordoba being a city in Andalusia.)
It ended, of course - first by a violent takeover by more puritan Muslims, then by the Christian armies taking over. Forced conversion, Inquisition, autodafes and finally expulsion. You might say that the Christan rulers ruled more by the fire than by the sword, I guess.
Anyway, the idea that the name Cordoba is somehow specifically picked to symbolize Islam rule is more than a little far-fetched.
So we need to restrict freedom to remain free? That's - well, that's pretty stupid. There are many roads to tyranny, and one certainly is the argument that people obviously have their freedom, it's just they can't be allowed to use it - like Newt Gingrich and a lot of the posters here have been stating.
And most Alabamians were against desegregation. Constitutional rights are not subject to vote, luckily.
As if they could have picked a name that would satisfy anyone posting on "Atlas Shrugs".
Do you know when the "Golden Age" of Judaism in Spain was? Correct, under the Cordoba Caliphate. Islam was certainly on top and life was tough and uncertain, but for the age (8th-11th century), there was a pretty unique timeframe of coexistence - so much that Jews and minor Christian sects traveled there in droves, to escape persecution in Christian Europe.
"Ruled by the sword"? The sword was what you ruled with in the 9th century. If you didn't, you'd stop ruling right quick.
(Incidentally, "Muslim Cordobans" didn't invade Spain - if they were Cordobans, they were already there, what with Cordoba being a city in Andalusia.)
It ended, of course - first by a violent takeover by more puritan Muslims, then by the Christian armies taking over. Forced conversion, Inquisition, autodafes and finally expulsion. You might say that the Christan rulers ruled more by the fire than by the sword, I guess.
Anyway, the idea that the name Cordoba is somehow specifically picked to symbolize Islam rule is more than a little far-fetched.
What is wrong with you people? It is a matter of the proposed location that is creating an issue.
Yeah, why can't they just stay at the back of the bus? They have every right to ride the bus, just not in front. It's their insistence of sitting in front that is creating an issue.
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We are all infidels, semantics withstanding.
To the specific brand of virulent Wahhabism exemplified by bin-Laden, most Muslims are infidels - or, at the very least, heretics - as well.
Newt obviously hates America. In this country we are free to buy land and put up pretty much whatever we want. What part about "Freedom" don't you people understand?
We are also Free to call it like it is.
We are free to disagree with these knuckleheads for their intentions.
We are free to point out the hypocricy of muslim countries.
We are free to discriminate between what is good & bad.
Not everything is okay in your version of "Freedom"
Yeah, why can't they just stay at the back of the bus? They have every right to ride the bus, just not in front. It's their insistence of sitting in front that is creating an issue.
I'm failing to see how this particular issue is even remotely equivalent to the black civil rights movement. This is such a different situation. Did you really go there?
I'm failing to see how this particular issue is even remotely equivalent to the black civil rights movement. This is such a different situation. Did you really go there?
Seems to me the comparison is apt. Are you in favor of denying a minority equal treatment under the law?
What is wrong with you people? It is a matter of the proposed location that is creating an issue. Not the existence of a mosque in general.
Really?
"There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia. The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over."
"Sharia Law does not allow for separation of church and state. You should think about that one."
"Allah wants them to die for him. Jesus wanted to die for us."
"If you really think so you're a very gullible person.
Of course it is not a mosque it's an Islamic indoctrination center and everybody is welcome.
Don't come back complaining when the board of this "community center" will run a campaign to ban "South Park".
"Islamic indoctrination is all over the country.
And now they're building an official center."
"You really don't believe that this will be Saudi financed. Everything Muslim is Saudi financed. You don't think that Hamas, Hezbollah, or other militant Islamic organizations will have a say in this project? I can't prove they will, but can you prove they won't?"
"As usual the left wing hate America crowd is bowing down to the wrong side of everything.
Remember folks, most left wingers want to give the radical islamic terrorist the same right's as Americans that you and I have.
Good job Newt! The MAJORITY of us believe the same way while the radical hate America lefties are on the wrong side of right once again.
The leftwing coward club must have met behind closed doors again to discuss how they can protect their anti American ways."
You were saying?
Oh yes...
Quote:
Get off your high liberal horse before you call all conservatives, or anyone that disagrees with you, a fascist.
First of all, you have to stay of a high horse otherwise you find your self wallowing in the gutter with the filth of the above kind of intolerance.
As for calling all conservatives, or anyone that disagrees with me a fascist, first of all, as I pointed out, I don't believe that this has anything to do with conservatism, second as I pointed out, I very rarely use the term fascist, and I certainly don't use it simply because someone disagrees with me, for that I usually prefer to use the word idiot. But this is beyond idiotic, and the tone, and hysteria is in my mind about as fascistic as it gets.
As for being an infidel, I'm well beyond that. I don't believe in any of you people's gods, spirits holy people, but that Constitution says that you all have a right to pray to your idols and magic spirits so I support your right to do so, even those snake eating, tongue speaking, polygamist Christians.
Seems to me the comparison is apt. Are you in favor of denying a minority equal treatment under the law?
In this particular situation, in light of our last decade of history, ABSOLUTELY. And make no mistake. If they had it their way, you would be a minority. That is, of course, unless you are Muslim.
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