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It doesn’t take much to upset the Muslim community especially outside of the USA. Muslim protest have been happening for years but since the September 11 attacks the eyes of the USA citizens have been opened. Islam’s intolerance and hatred of other religions and/or views is unacceptable in a free world. If you are not Islamic and you do not intend to become Islamic you are the “enemy”. Even after the fact that the church DID NOT burn any Korans Muslims over the globe had violent protest and people were killed, so what is their message? Their message is, “we are not tolerant of anyone and we will kill innocent lives to prove it!” Muslims are not even tolerant within their own religion!
All you peace and love Islamic supporters here in the USA can say what you want about the tolerance of Islam but I would be willing to bet the family farm that none of you would spend any time in a Eastern country with an “I’m am Christian (or whatever faith, not Islamic)” sign on your head. They will freaking kill you! And this is what some of you support? Give me a break.
Pit-bulls are like Muslims, as long as you know your place in the pecking order there will be peace but if you step out of line or a stray walks in violence will soon follow.
It doesn't have anything to do with race. Where in the hell would you get that idea? Try again. Technically, we are all one race.
Don't be obtuse, you know exactly what is meant by that response. Playing the race card is a manner of dismissing ones position out of a claim of irrational generalization of the whole. In this case, you immediately jumped to the conclusion that all Muslims were the target, when the issue of the response by these Koran burners however inconsiderate to any peaceful Muslims was targeted at the fanatics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
What was the message that was being sent, Nomander? It isn't hard.
Again, what was the message that was being sent? It doesn't have anything to do with race, nice deflection going on there.
The message is irrelevant, the action was a burning of a book, the elevation of response by those fanatics is not on par with their action. Nice try to yet again "blame" those who are not responsible. There is no deflection other than your desire to excuse those who commit murder as innocents.
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Originally Posted by Pandamonium
Again, what was the message that was being sent? It doesn't have anything to do with race, nice deflection going on there.
Again, it doesn't matter. It is an action burning a book, their actions were to kill. You do the math there genius.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
It was denied. End of story. And still no answer as to what the message was?
And yet you want to speculate in other areas, but to do so with the reason it was denied, well... end of story right? Yeah, thought so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
We aren't even including the one in Kentucky. Include the one in Kentucky. What is the message?
Again, irrelevant. Try to stay with the discussion here. You keep wanting to turn this into a justification for the killing. It seems you are doing just that. Look at your desire to point at whatever the intent of the burners was. As I said, it doesn't matter. An action was to burn it, the reaction by the fanatics was to kill people. Doesn't quite equate, but then your goal is to excuse the murderers and then proclaim those who burned however tactless they may have been, as the true guilt party. Look up responsibility sometime, it seems you lack understanding of the word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
Really? Because the poster was saying, a message was sent and this is the response. You must have wanted a response, and you can't pick and choose the response that you got and you can't very well hide from it either. In that particular post, that is what I saw.
We do not live by their laws. We do not live by their customs. We live by a understanding that words are just that, they can not kill or harm, that the true responsible party is the one who commits the action. Again, here you are trying to excuse them of guilt by trying to form an argument that because there is some sort of message, they were justified in the actions of killing and the fault is on the book burners because they should have known such. Again, the gun didn't kill, it was the idiot using it.
If your logic is correct, then Americans would be justified in killing those who burn the flag. I mean, what is the message being sent? Go ahead, explain? Oh and what was the message being sent to the US when they bombed us the many times in history? What is the message? Care to rationalize that? Go ahead... lets hear how they are innocent and how we are evil infidels that must die and our deaths are our own faults. By all means, make your case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
They, they, they, they, they. In the first paragraph, you ask Did I say all muslims? Then you turn around and say they, they, they, they, they. Again, what was the message that was sent? And if it wasn't what was intended, what the hell was the intention? Because they heard you. By and large, only the government actions and corps make headlines in the ME. Unless there are human interest stories shared by people who have lived in the US or studied in the US and moved back. Once in awhile, some hairbrained crime makes the news.
Here you go again being obtuse, deviously so it seems or is that you just can't keep track of context for more than a paragraph or so? They as in radical Muslims. As for the message, again... it doesn't matter. If group A says they hate group B, they hate their religion, etc... and then in response to that group B goes out and kills people, then explain to me genius, who is wrong here? Apparently, due to your undeniable logic, it must be group A because they spoke their opinion and how dare such a group do that! It is ridiculous.
Again, I don't care what their dang message was. I only care about actions, words are spoke by many, yet it is the actions of one to which solidifies their standing. You would like to think that words are the actions and you do so to deviously place blame. The only ones at fault here are the idiots that went out and murdered people, but apparently you seem set on excusing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
What is the message that was intended? Take a look on this board and go back at least 10 pages. Extremists will look for any reason and they will use anything to prop up whatever action they deem as necessary. On both sides of the coin, and in any area. No, it is not a question of unwillingness to conform that added to it.
Like a broken record, again you keep building this straw-man as if the fact that it somehow has in validity in the actions of the fanatics. It wouldn't matter if their message was one of complete disgust, hate, etc... they spoke, the others killed. you get back to me when these book burners start bombing and beheading people. Until then, your position is nothing more than a sympathizer for murderous thugs. Pat yourself on the back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
The above underlined, there is this tiny problem. The response was to what has been branded as a group of extremists in the US. Not a response of not adapting to the hardcore extremist Islamonuts.
It is a problem because you are improperly summarizing me. The point was that these people who burned the books spoke their mind. The response by the fanatics was to kill because of it. Also, if you look back to their demands and claims of our society, they wish us dead because we do not conform. The poster was placing blame on those for doing something that the poster claimed brought about their violence. This while it may be true in that specific, their violence to us is not contingent on that extreme. That is, they have attacked us, killed many of our people, and bombed us all the while claiming it is because we do not conform to their religious position.
So, in that respect, if the actions of book burners is what caused the killing, then by the very statements and demands of these fanatic Muslims, then the poster not living according to their law and converting to their religion ALSO incites them to violence as they have stated in the past when they committed their murders in the past.
You make the invalid argument that if somehow these book burners or others like them did not exist or make such statements of opinion, that we would not be attacked. That is a blatant falsehood and we can go over the fine details of the attacks on the US for the last 30 years or so by these Muslim fanatics and also review each and every one of their statements as to why they did it. Your contest to my mention is invalid because you falsely summarize it. Pay attention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
It isn't a case of stop what you are doing, shame on you and your free speech. It is.......what the hell was the message?
Free speech is not protected to serve that which you may approve of, it exists to protect speech to which that you do not. Apparently you lack even the most fundamental understanding of our rights. If you do not like what someone says, fine... move on, ignore it and go your own way. Nobody is forcing you to listen to them.
Again, I do not know the message, in your lust to defend murders and tailor the meaning of free speech to your own approval, you missed the point where I said I did not approve of the burning, but believe they have the right to speak as they choose just as I have the right to not listen.
Shame on you for your ignorance of the very protections to which insure our freedom. Shame on you for manipulating these rights to demand conformity to your own will. Shame on you for your oppressive dictation of conformity. And lastly, shame on you for defending murders and attempting to place blame other than where it is deserved.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. A childhood lesson that you apparently missed. Who was the one who throws sticks and stones in this issue? Go ahead, defend them some more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
If your post was an attempt to articulate that message, you are way off mark. As in that you don't have capacity to do that, but you already knew that. So, I ask you once again, what is the message that was intended?
And your post is a straw-man again missing the point and attempting to change the subject to an evaluation that has no meaning. Words mean nothing and intent has no grounds without action. You attempt to focus on intent of the burners as action and excuse those who murder in action.
Don't be obtuse, you know exactly what is meant by that response. Playing the race card is a manner of dismissing ones position out of a claim of irrational generalization of the whole. In this case, you immediately jumped to the conclusion that all Muslims were the target, when the issue of the response by these Koran burners however inconsiderate to any peaceful Muslims was targeted at the fanatics.
The message is irrelevant, the action was a burning of a book, the elevation of response by those fanatics is not on par with their action. Nice try to yet again "blame" those who are not responsible. There is no deflection other than your desire to excuse those who commit murder as innocents.
Again, it doesn't matter. It is an action burning a book, their actions were to kill. You do the math there genius.
And yet you want to speculate in other areas, but to do so with the reason it was denied, well... end of story right? Yeah, thought so.
Again, irrelevant. Try to stay with the discussion here. You keep wanting to turn this into a justification for the killing. It seems you are doing just that. Look at your desire to point at whatever the intent of the burners was. As I said, it doesn't matter. An action was to burn it, the reaction by the fanatics was to kill people. Doesn't quite equate, but then your goal is to excuse the murderers and then proclaim those who burned however tactless they may have been, as the true guilt party. Look up responsibility sometime, it seems you lack understanding of the word.
We do not live by their laws. We do not live by their customs. We live by a understanding that words are just that, they can not kill or harm, that the true responsible party is the one who commits the action. Again, here you are trying to excuse them of guilt by trying to form an argument that because there is some sort of message, they were justified in the actions of killing and the fault is on the book burners because they should have known such. Again, the gun didn't kill, it was the idiot using it.
If your logic is correct, then Americans would be justified in killing those who burn the flag. I mean, what is the message being sent? Go ahead, explain? Oh and what was the message being sent to the US when they bombed us the many times in history? What is the message? Care to rationalize that? Go ahead... lets hear how they are innocent and how we are evil infidels that must die and our deaths are our own faults. By all means, make your case.
Here you go again being obtuse, deviously so it seems or is that you just can't keep track of context for more than a paragraph or so? They as in radical Muslims. As for the message, again... it doesn't matter. If group A says they hate group B, they hate their religion, etc... and then in response to that group B goes out and kills people, then explain to me genius, who is wrong here? Apparently, due to your undeniable logic, it must be group A because they spoke their opinion and how dare such a group do that! It is ridiculous.
Again, I don't care what their dang message was. I only care about actions, words are spoke by many, yet it is the actions of one to which solidifies their standing. You would like to think that words are the actions and you do so to deviously place blame. The only ones at fault here are the idiots that went out and murdered people, but apparently you seem set on excusing them.
Like a broken record, again you keep building this straw-man as if the fact that it somehow has in validity in the actions of the fanatics. It wouldn't matter if their message was one of complete disgust, hate, etc... they spoke, the others killed. you get back to me when these book burners start bombing and beheading people. Until then, your position is nothing more than a sympathizer for murderous thugs. Pat yourself on the back.
It is a problem because you are improperly summarizing me. The point was that these people who burned the books spoke their mind. The response by the fanatics was to kill because of it. Also, if you look back to their demands and claims of our society, they wish us dead because we do not conform. The poster was placing blame on those for doing something that the poster claimed brought about their violence. This while it may be true in that specific, their violence to us is not contingent on that extreme. That is, they have attacked us, killed many of our people, and bombed us all the while claiming it is because we do not conform to their religious position.
So, in that respect, if the actions of book burners is what caused the killing, then by the very statements and demands of these fanatic Muslims, then the poster not living according to their law and converting to their religion ALSO incites them to violence as they have stated in the past when they committed their murders in the past.
You make the invalid argument that if somehow these book burners or others like them did not exist or make such statements of opinion, that we would not be attacked. That is a blatant falsehood and we can go over the fine details of the attacks on the US for the last 30 years or so by these Muslim fanatics and also review each and every one of their statements as to why they did it. Your contest to my mention is invalid because you falsely summarize it. Pay attention.
Free speech is not protected to serve that which you may approve of, it exists to protect speech to which that you do not. Apparently you lack even the most fundamental understanding of our rights. If you do not like what someone says, fine... move on, ignore it and go your own way. Nobody is forcing you to listen to them.
Again, I do not know the message, in your lust to defend murders and tailor the meaning of free speech to your own approval, you missed the point where I said I did not approve of the burning, but believe they have the right to speak as they choose just as I have the right to not listen.
Shame on you for your ignorance of the very protections to which insure our freedom. Shame on you for manipulating these rights to demand conformity to your own will. Shame on you for your oppressive dictation of conformity. And lastly, shame on you for defending murders and attempting to place blame other than where it is deserved.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. A childhood lesson that you apparently missed. Who was the one who throws sticks and stones in this issue? Go ahead, defend them some more.
And your post is a straw-man again missing the point and attempting to change the subject to an evaluation that has no meaning. Words mean nothing and intent has no grounds without action. You attempt to focus on intent of the burners as action and excuse those who murder in action.
What you defend is a disgrace.
You spent an awful lot of time to not say a damn thing in order to defend a lot of hot air. Par for course. You don't have a legit argument. So, you have attempted to say that I am defending murderers. That pretty much seals the deal that what you defend, if we only knew wtf that was--nobody got the message----is a disgrace.
What about that pesky part of the article, "in demonstrations fueled by reports of Quran burnings in the United States"?
Darn it, if only that part weren't in there.
Here is a little thought experiment for you:
Let's say that after 9/11 some American Christians went and burnt down a mosque in protest and killed some Muslim kids. Would you say that Osama and Co. were responsible for the death of children (which would at least be in protest to actual people being killed as opposed to the threat of burning a book of which there are literally hundreds of millions copies)?
You're right, fundamentalism makes people crazy, both there and in the US.
I see no difference between fudamental muslims and fundamental christers.
You want to know the difference between Western Christian Fundamentalists and Muslim Fundamentalists?
Western Christian Fundamentalists are funny. The majority of them are pretty harmless. Sure, you get the odd violent nutjob and you have the occasionally televangelist making outrageous claims, but they are relatively harmless. Relative in comparison to people who record themselves sawing off heads or blow themselves up.
Even the occasional abortion clinic pipe bomb is nothing compared to the violence Islamic Fundamentalists regularly dish out.
Here is a little sample of some Muslim Fundamentalists being their lovable selves (oh, and this is on mainstream TV in several Arab countries not their version of Trinity):
It doesn’t take much to upset the Muslim community especially outside of the USA. Muslim protest have been happening for years but since the September 11 attacks the eyes of the USA citizens have been opened. Islam’s intolerance and hatred of other religions and/or views is unacceptable in a free world. If you are not Islamic and you do not intend to become Islamic you are the “enemy”. Even after the fact that the church DID NOT burn any Korans Muslims over the globe had violent protest and people were killed, so what is their message? Their message is, “we are not tolerant of anyone and we will kill innocent lives to prove it!” Muslims are not even tolerant within their own religion!
All you peace and love Islamic supporters here in the USA can say what you want about the tolerance of Islam but I would be willing to bet the family farm that none of you would spend any time in a Eastern country with an “I’m am Christian (or whatever faith, not Islamic)” sign on your head. They will freaking kill you! And this is what some of you support? Give me a break.
Pit-bulls are like Muslims, as long as you know your place in the pecking order there will be peace but if you step out of line or a stray walks in violence will soon follow.
You used a pit-bull analogy that I disagree with, because a pit-bull takes on the characteristics of their owners. They can be sweet or vicious depending on the training, given to them by their care givers. Oh wait no, actually it does fit!
I read the article at the link. Wow, is all I can say. However, I have said it that the Muslim-Islamic, they have principles that they will kill for and die for. What do American's have? When American's will allow certain things to happen here that other countries won't allow and/or will kill any one for trying, what does that say about American's to them? That American's have principles too, or that America is lacking a spinal column?
Something to think about while we in America insist on Tolerance the New American way. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
You spent an awful lot of time to not say a damn thing in order to defend a lot of hot air. Par for course. You don't have a legit argument. So, you have attempted to say that I am defending murderers. That pretty much seals the deal that what you defend, if we only knew wtf that was--nobody got the message----is a disgrace.
Thanks for playing. You lose.
That always works! Just claim you win (like this was a game anyway. /boggle) and run off in victory.
*chuckle*
Go ahead and run along though, I mean... you showed me!
/pats you on the head
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Where in the hell would you get that idea? Try again. Technically, we are all one race.
