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Old 09-17-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,515 posts, read 16,183,415 times
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Or do you know of anyone that has.

Just curious to see how many people on this forum have considered it.

I ask because there seems to be a great deal of unhappiness on this forum as it relates to this country.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:46 AM
 
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No. But, I wish some of those who post here and state how much they hate this nation would consider so doing.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:49 AM
 
70 posts, read 39,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
Or do you know of anyone that has.

Just curious to see how many people on this forum have considered it.

I ask because there seems to be a great deal of unhappiness on this forum as it relates to this country.
I have tried renouncing my family membership a couple times but you know how that goes- every time I try to get out they suck me back in.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:51 AM
 
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No. I treasure my citizenship and consider it a blessing that I was born an American.

I've travelled widely. Including behind the "Iron Curtain" when it was very difficult to get into those countries. We're not perfect, but I've yet to see anything better.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
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Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
No. I treasure my citizenship and consider it a blessing that I was born an American.

I've travelled widely. Including behind the "Iron Curtain" when it was very difficult to get into those countries. We're not perfect, but I've yet to see anything better.
I am sure citizens of other countries think the same about their country.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:55 AM
 
34 posts, read 21,646 times
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
No. But, I wish some of those who post here and state how much they hate this nation would consider so doing.
But you guys already tell us how much we hate our nation.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:59 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
No. But, I wish some of those who post here and state how much they hate this nation would consider so doing.
Can you cite some examples of people here stating "how much they hate this nation"?

The only hate talk I usually see is the asinine, baseless 'America-Hater' statements by the NeoConfused.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:59 AM
 
70 posts, read 39,648 times
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Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
I am sure citizens of other countries think the same about their country.
Only a valid point if they are well traveled and world experienced.

Eitherway there is nothing wrong with feeling that way.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:02 AM
 
13,684 posts, read 9,007,828 times
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Didn't several movie stars renounce their citizenship, both after President Bush was elected and re-elected, and then when President Obama was elected?

I certainly recall several stating in no uncertain terms that they planned to renounce if Mr. Bush or Mr. Obama were elected.

No doubt they carried through.


Macbeth:

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5, 19-28
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,024 posts, read 14,201,797 times
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Are you really referring to American nationality?
There's a difference between an American national and a U.S. citizen.
A citizen is a subject, by definition.
An American national is not a subject, he's one of the sovereign people.

=========================
In America, however, the case is widely different. Our government is founded upon compact. Sovereignty was, and is, in the people.
[ Glass vs The Sloop Betsey, 3 Dall 6 (1794)]

It will be admitted on all hands that with the exception of the powers granted to the states and the federal government, through the Constitutions, the people of the several states are unconditionally sovereign within their respective states.
Ohio L. Ins. & T. Co. v. Debolt 16 How. 416, 14 L.Ed. 997

Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to law, for it is the author and source of law; but in our system, while sovereign powers are delegated to the agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with the people, by whom and for whom all government exists and acts.
[Yick Wo vs Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 370 (1886)]
And I know most Americans haven't been informed that they volunteered to be subject citizens.
CITIZEN - ... Citizens are members of a political community who, in their associative capacity, have established or submitted themselves to the dominion of government for the promotion of the general welfare and the protection of their individual as well as collective rights.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p.244

SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
...Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425

"... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "subject" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)
And just where can you find any mention of those elusive "American nationals" who are not "persons liable" and not subjects of government?

The sole mention of an American national, in the 1992 edition of the 50 Titles of the U.S. Code:
Title 8, U.S.Code, Sec. 1502. Certificate of nationality issued by the Secretary of State for person not a naturalized citizen of the United States for use in proceedings of a foreign state.

The Secretary of State is authorized to issue, in his discretion and in accordance with rules and regulations prescribed by him, a certificate of nationality for any person not a naturalized citizen of the United States who presents satisfactory evidence that he is an American national and that such certificate is needed for use in judicial or administrative proceedings in a foreign state. Such certificate shall be solely for the use in the case for which it was issued and shall be transmitted by the Secretary of State through appropriate channels to the judicial or administrative officers of the foreign state in which it is to be used.
Another mention of people who are NOT citizens:
"The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants... shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states; ...."
[Article IV of the Articles of Confederation (1777)]
The people are the sovereigns, served by government.
The citizens are the subjects, who serve their sovereign government.
Which one are you referring to?
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