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That's not really fair--many people who profess a faith are kind and loving--for many Christians, it means that they try to be Christ like--to live a life of caring and concern for others, modeled on the life of Jesus.
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but this seems appropriate here in light of many of the posts on this issue. There is a huge debate among some theologians over whether or not various forms of Christianity are even the same religion, except in name. The philosophy of division is described by some as the difference between "rule of law" and "rule of love". It's more complex than this, but basically some Christian groups believe the bible is a book of laws written by God and followed strictly by believers. Other Christians focus more on Christ's message of love for God, each other, forgiveness and salvation. I think what you're seeing here is a split not just on political grounds, but on basic issues of faith for many people. There's a really interesting site created by the Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance--it basically outlines in matter of fact and unbiased terms what people of many different faith groups believe. Some of you might find it interesting. They also have a section on the religious arguments pro and against gay rights. Here's the essay there on the differences between Christian faith groups:
Thank you for this post. I think this is the most valuable post I have read on City Data Forums. I hope that a lot of people take the time to really digest this.
We call all sit here and throw stones at one another and forget that at our base we are alll human.
And marriage laws are blind to that whether you're gay or straight.
How is that relevant? I'm the one advocating equal rights here. I think the issue is that equal rights doesn't benefit the darling group you're arguing for.
I have to agree. I feel very badly for the personal struggles of homosexuals. However, none of us is guaranteed the right to marry the person we want. Homosexuals can marry currently, just not each other.
I am all for the revision of the laws that keep those in civil unions from having equal legal rights as far as child custody, benefits, medical, POA, etc... .Frankly, those heterosexuals that choose civil unions should be treated no differently under the law than the homosexuals who choose civil unions. That is equality.
The propensity for gay activists to label anyone who does not support their political agendas negatively as individuals and entire groups alike is counter-productive. It simply doesn't fly. I think that if the gay/homosexual community as a whole took the high road rather than degrading themselves to name calling or defining themselves via sexual acts that they would find more support.
I guess I just don't understand defining oneself politically primarily by what belongs in the bedroom. I prefer looking at the whole person regardless of religion, color, gender, etc... . Of course, YMMV
I'll say this again...no need to create a segregated class of citizens for marriage, if you have such a big problem with gay marriage in your faith group. Just make marriage itself an optional religious, legally non-binding ceremony only. In its place, EVERYONE gets a civil union that grants the legal rights and benefits that Americans now receive under what we currently call marriage. If your church doesn't want to marry someone, they don't have to, and no one gets their religious beliefs walked all over. It's done that way in some other countries. Easy peasy.
You're the one arguing for a new definition of marriage to suit gay people. I'm the one arguing they should live with the same one straight people have.
Um, no............ are you having cognitive problems today?
I have said from the start that gays should have the same rights, SAME LAWS as everyone else.
You posted that they should have "special" laws for marriage.
Separate but equal, thats the same as Jim Crow.
So, which is it?
Same law, or "special" laws?
I think that if the gay/homosexual community as a whole took the high road rather than degrading themselves to name calling or defining themselves via sexual acts that they would find more support.
This is the same type of "blame the victim" nonsense spewed by the Family Research Council which recently said that gay teens aren't killing themselves because of bullying, but because they've chosen "an unhealthy lifestyle".
Last edited by AnUnidentifiedMale; 10-06-2010 at 11:51 AM..
I'll say this again...no need to create a segregated class of citizens for marriage, if you have such a big problem with gay marriage in your faith group. Just make marriage itself an optional religious, legally non-binding ceremony only. In its place, EVERYONE gets a civil union that grants the legal rights and benefits that Americans now receive under what we currently call marriage. If your church doesn't want to marry someone, they don't have to, and no one gets their religious beliefs walked all over. It's done that way in some other countries. Easy peasy.
Exactly, no need for "special" laws.....whatever thats supposed to be.
Um, no............ are you having cognitive problems today?
I have said from the start that gays should have the same rights, SAME LAWS as everyone else.
You posted that they should have "special" laws for marriage.
Separate but equal, thats the same as Jim Crow.
So, which is it?
Same law, or "special" laws?
You and others here aren't willing to understand. If gay people want to have the SAME LAWS and SAME RIGHTS as everyone else, then nothing needs to be done.
Right now, there is absolutely nothing in the law that questions sexual preference when a person applies for a marriage certificate. If you want this to change, you are advocating a change to the system that is already blind to sexual preference.
Can a pedophilechange his orientation at will? Is he excused for acting on his desires?
Can a rapist be excused because he feels compelled to act on his urges? Your values tell you that homosexuality is ok...but that is a subjective value that you can't force on others.
.
Really, Calvinist?? Really?
When will you and the others who lump criminals into the same catagory as homosexuals get into your brains that UNCONSENSUAL SEX CRIMES are just that...UNCONSENSUAL??
A homosexuality is consensual.
WHY do you and others keep trying bring up the same TIRED and INCORRECT argument? Why?
When will you and the others who lump criminals into the same catagory as homosexuals get into your brains that UNCONSENSUAL SEX CRIMES are just that...UNCONSENSUAL??
A homosexuality is consensual.
WHY do you and others keep trying bring up the same TIRED and INCORRECT argument? Why?
Are you intentionally ignoring the point of the argument? The point is that you are arguing that apparently gay people can't control their lusts and they need to have a special type of marriage for gay people only. My point is that many pedophiles and rapists feel urges that they claim they can't control.
Criminality is irrelevant to the argument here. The point is that you feel when it comes to sex that some people can't control themselves so they should be allowed special exceptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale
I'd say it's due to religious self-righteousness for the most part.
I'm not the one that claims to have a self-defined morality, pal. If there's anyone here that's self-righteous it's you.
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