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Old 11-03-2010, 05:05 AM
 
27,206 posts, read 46,537,403 times
Reputation: 15661

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High babysterfte possible by midwives

UTRECHT- The high number of babies that in Netherlands dies during pregnancy or childbirth, may have to do with the fact that a lot of work with midwives. The number of babies that in Netherlands during childbirth, is one of the highest in Europe.
Photo: Getty Images
That is apparent from examination of the UMC Utrecht that Wednesday in the journal bmj is published. Volkskrant and NRC Next wrote about the research. Pregnant women are twice as likely that their baby dies as they begin their birth with a midwife instead of a gynecologist. That chance is even almost four times as high as the wife during a home delivery to the hospital must or is transferred to the gynecologist.

During Prinsjesdag was already known that the Ministry of health in the coming year 24 million euro funding to tackle the babysterfte. That amount must for 2012 and beyond reach 38 million euros.

www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/8104770/__Hoge_babyste rfte_mogelijk_door_verloskundigen__.html?p=2,1 - Translator

I can tell you life experience of our own children being born over there....no painkillers, a midwife waiting and waiting for over 24 hours after the water was broken and risking a lot....

Second child was born in the hospital after they want to sent us home, but we insisted to stay there since we had a medical indication...only after an almost complete delivery but the baby got stuck an emergency C-section took place and the baby was born with an Apcar score of 2!

Very scary but luckily both kids are doing very well and are straight A honor students but it was within seconds of being a complete different life for all of us.

Please repeal health care!
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:27 AM
 
5,391 posts, read 7,194,943 times
Reputation: 2857
Midwifery is a more common practice in some other countries than it is in the USA.

The infant mortality rate in the Netherlands is 4.7 deaths per 1000 live births, the under-5 mortality rate is 5.9 deaths per 1000 births.

The Netherlands has better outcomes than the USA.

In the USA, the rate is 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births (infants), 7.8 deaths per 1000 births for under-5.

While the rate in the Netherlands may be one of the highest in Europe, almost all Western European nations, including the Netherlands, have better outcomes than the USA. You fail to mention that the European countries that score better than the Netherlands also have some form of national health care, so why you think moving away from national health care would be better, is beyond me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post

Please repeal health care!
Why, so more American babies can die?
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:30 AM
 
1,734 posts, read 1,815,764 times
Reputation: 1135
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
High babysterfte possible by midwives

UTRECHT- The high number of babies that in Netherlands dies during pregnancy or childbirth, may have to do with the fact that a lot of work with midwives. The number of babies that in Netherlands during childbirth, is one of the highest in Europe.
Photo: Getty Images
That is apparent from examination of the UMC Utrecht that Wednesday in the journal bmj is published. Volkskrant and NRC Next wrote about the research. Pregnant women are twice as likely that their baby dies as they begin their birth with a midwife instead of a gynecologist. That chance is even almost four times as high as the wife during a home delivery to the hospital must or is transferred to the gynecologist.

During Prinsjesdag was already known that the Ministry of health in the coming year 24 million euro funding to tackle the babysterfte. That amount must for 2012 and beyond reach 38 million euros.

www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/8104770/__Hoge_babysterfte_mogelijk_door_verloskundigen__. html?p=2,1 - Translator

I can tell you life experience of our own children being born over there....no painkillers, a midwife waiting and waiting for over 24 hours after the water was broken and risking a lot....

Second child was born in the hospital after they want to sent us home, but we insisted to stay there since we had a medical indication...only after an almost complete delivery but the baby got stuck an emergency C-section took place and the baby was born with an Apcar score of 2!

Very scary but luckily both kids are doing very well and are straight A honor students but it was within seconds of being a complete different life for all of us.

Please repeal health care!
Well, the infant mortality rate that the Netherlands consider unacceptably high is, in fact, much better than that of the USA currently.

According to the CIA world factbook, the infant mortality in the Netherlands is 4.66 per 100 births, wile the USA is almost 50 % worse. The Netherlands consider it unacceptable to be trailing behind 29 other developed countries. The USA, at number 46, would consider this unbelivably good. Bracketed by Belarus and Cuba, yay.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html

The number of women dying in childbirth is 15 % higher in the USA than the Netherlands.

Maternal mortality (most recent) by country

Your argument basically boils down to:

"Please, please, please repeal health care, or else US performance may improve to match other countries, and many more women and children would survive childbirth in the USA."
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:14 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,587,484 times
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oh brother, my mother had a fabulous experience in UK with their universal healthcare in 1973 when she had an infected toe, and we were tourists! We walked out of their clinic with no charge
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:22 AM
Status: "Ephesians 6:12" (set 14 days ago)
 
44,987 posts, read 26,141,048 times
Reputation: 24730
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspiesmom View Post
oh brother, my mother had a fabulous experience in UK with their universal healthcare in 1973 when she had an infected toe, and we were tourists! We walked out of their clinic with no charge
Just like the illegals do here.
The taxpayers of the UK picked up the tab for your mother, I wonder what that adds to their healthcare bottom line?
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:27 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,788,138 times
Reputation: 17862
There's many issues with the mortality rate statistics starting with how they are reported. Not sure about the Netherlands but I believe it was France that doesn't report babies under a certain weight that die after birth and other counties have similar reporting guidelines that can drive the numbers down. In the US any child that is born alive is counted. In addition to that premature babies, especially severely premature babies are more likely to birthed alive in the US and live due to superior care. Since these babies are also very sick they are more likely to die after birth.

Poor African Americans have n abnormally high death rate among infants which is double the national average. When you remove them from the equation the death rate in the US falls in line with the top countries in the world even with the odd reporting guidelines.

Last edited by thecoalman; 11-03-2010 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,540,014 times
Reputation: 24856
Why don't we take a Republican Free Market approach and eliminate all government health insurance. I would like to see how the market would affect the price and quality of medical care. In order to make this market function we would need to put the system on a No Pay, No Care footing.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:35 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,788,138 times
Reputation: 17862
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Why don't we take a Republican Free Market approach and eliminate all government health insurance. I would like to see how the market would affect the price and quality of medical care. In order to make this market function we would need to put the system on a No Pay, No Care footing.
Same post, different thread?

What's the matter Greg, feeling ill this morning?
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:39 AM
 
1,734 posts, read 1,815,764 times
Reputation: 1135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Just like the illegals do here.
The taxpayers of the UK picked up the tab for your mother, I wonder what that adds to their healthcare bottom line?
Not a lot.

I mean, the doctors and nurses get the same salary regardless of whether they are having tea or treating an infected toe. Its like a city sewage system: Expensive to put in place, but once it is there, going to the toilet doesn't cost a lot.
What would the extra expense be, some antibiotics and maybe an x-ray. That is not exactly expensive.

High fixed costs, very low marginal costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
There's many issues with the mortality rate statistics starting with how they are reported. Not sure about the Netherlands but I believe it was France that doesn't report babies under a certain weight that die after birth. In the US any child that is born alive is counted. In addition to that premature babies, especially severely premature babies are more likely to birthed alive. In that category the high death rate among newborns in the US is in fact due to superior care.

Where most of the deaths occur is among poor African Americans.
The WHO guidelines for a live birth says the baby should be over 500 grams of weight, 22 cm long or a number of weeks along (exact number forgotten by me. 20-odd). Satisfying one of these is enough to qualify. Some places use different rules, but those are the guidelines which are used to assess performance, and everyone knows that when they decide how to report numbers.

Also, it is worth noticing that the US is in exactly the same postition for maternal mortality and under-5 mortality, numbers not so easy to define differently.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:52 AM
Status: "Ephesians 6:12" (set 14 days ago)
 
44,987 posts, read 26,141,048 times
Reputation: 24730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
Not a lot.

I mean, the doctors and nurses get the same salary regardless of whether they are having tea or treating an infected toe. Its like a city sewage system: Expensive to put in place, but once it is there, going to the toilet doesn't cost a lot.
What would the extra expense be, some antibiotics and maybe an x-ray. That is not exactly expensive.

High fixed costs, very low marginal costs.
Sounds like the UK has a good handle on the dumbing down of healthcare and the skill sets of those who have made a career of it.
No reward for exceptionalism.

I liked your analogy:
City sewage system- UK health care
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